How free form were German camoflage techniques during WWII? What was the method of application? Was camoflage ever brushed on? Are there any good websites that have various examples of camoflage patterns from German WWII AFVs?

2nd question regards zimmerit and the King Tiger. How frequently was the King Tiger zimmerited?

these references might help you

camouflage.. some are not accurate...but they give you a rough idea

http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html

info on zimmerit

http://www.panzerworld.net/zimmerit.html

the early tiger II, the one with the 'porsche' turret were all carrying zimmerit.

a lot of camouflage the german used were specific patterns, i.e. the ambush pattern (red-brown, green and a basecoat of dark yellow) a lot of camouflage was applied in factories because vehicles needed to go to the front, later on in the war (and some early parts of the war) crews put their own finishing touches on the camouflage, adding branches, leaves camo nets etc, even to go so far as making "shacks" on top of tanks to use for ambushing. supplies of course eventually ran low, and paint was the least of the german's concern (munitions and manpower needed to get to the front first) so this is why a lot of "unofficial" camo schemes were made, crews simply didnt have enough supplies, so they had to make do.

camo is also encorporated into the seasons, ie winter camouflage, simply whitewash splattered all over the vehicles to conceal them in the snow.

now for applications, in the factory, paint i believe was airbrushed on, yes brushes were used, particularly in the field though, this is what germans used to apply their whitewash.

websites, i'll look for you, but i do recommend this

for camouflage, Paner Colors, an excellent book aobut german camo from 1939-1945 here is the link

here

I'm sorry, but this part is just wrong. The Ambush pattern, or more correctly Licht und Schattentarnung, was pretty much the only factory applied camo scheme.

Up to 1943 German vehicles left the factory in Panzergrau, with crews sometimes adding some extra colours. In 1943 the order came to change the basecolour for German vehicles to the famous Dunkelgelb, and this is the way most vehicles left the factory. Only in late 1944 did factories start applying the camo themselves, up to that point ot was done by the troops themselves.

Standard practice was that a tank was delivered in dark yellow only, and the crew then applied the camo. They normally received two colours to do so, namely a dark olive green and a reddish brown. These two colours were then applied by the crew as they saw fit to local circumstances, although some commanders specified guidelines for their units, but nothing hard and fast.
The camo pattern was usually applied with a spraygun, although it was not uncommon to use a brush, if sprayguns were not readily available.
The colour of the green and brown varied wildly, because the paint as it was delivered was an undiluted pigment, which the crew than had to dilute with whatever was available, sometimes using fuel or alcohol. So you can imagine that since the mixtures varied from unit to unit, from crew to crew, and even crewmember to crewmember, very few tanks had exaxtly the same colours applied.

It seems that in late 44/early 45 the orders once again changed and that dark green was to be used as a base, and later on the red oxide primer was even incorporated into the scheme, but this is still hotly debated as no hard evidence for this exists.

Should someone require pics showing the extend to which schemes could differ within a single unit, get in touch with me at [email protected] and I'dbe happy to send some photos.

i've got a book, (not panzer colors) with no title, sorry sounds kinda sketchy, but yes it has no title (pretty old) and added that factory applied camo was often used THEN crews added the paint/brush/ whatever was used to improve it.

sorry if the information is wrong, just using a source that has proved valuble in the past...


never heard of this: i know crews did apply camo to their vehicle, but were there any templates (factory or not) that people went by?? just a thought

What I've read concurs with Romanowski. I hadn't seen anything bout factory applied camo before, however. So I'll defer to his references on that. From all I've read, unlike MERDC or the current 3 color Nato scheme, there was no specific pattern and even the Ambush scheme varies widely. Some pictures show only dunkelgelb spots on the rotbrun and dunkelgrun patches while others have two three color spots. Size and pattern vary as well, some show rounded spots, others thin trapezoidal shapes and others a stenciled shape sort of like this ( ). I've seen some illustrations with very large soft edged spots over the standard pattern. There was no specific percentage of the three colors and in the non ambush camos, just about anything went.
References indicate paint was applied by spray gun, brushes, mops, brooms, sheets or other cloths, or in some cases, splaxhed on. Anything to visually break up the outline of the vehicle.

I'm also interested in method of camo application as it will determine how I emulate it...this wil be my first camo scheme so I'm a bit nervous to get it right. Often the schemes people model clearly are airbrushed as the color "blobs" have soft edges to them. I've read that most Geran tanks had on board air compressors and hence they would spray their camo on. But would it be wrong for an entire tank to have been brushed on? Not wrong necessarily, but non-standard? What got me thinking was I saw this guy's Jadgpanzr:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v79/cocamin/60.jpg

It is absolutely incredible and the camo scheme is "hard edged" as though the crew brush painted it on.

I'm just not sure I want to get bogged down just yet creating paper templates offset of the surface to create the soft edge look when I can sit down with the model and have some fun brushing it on like the old days.

Also had another question. Read a technique whereby you put a base coat down of gunmetal, wait a week, then put your primary color down and wait a week. The idea is that you can then carefully scrap the primary coat to reveal the gunmetal underneath giving a more realistic illusion of chipped paint. Has anyone ever tried this and is there a better method perhaps?

The scheme in that picture would be one of the factory applied hard edge schemes, so not done by the crew.

As for your other question, though by far most camo patterns were sprayed on, brushed on camo was far from uncommon. Photographic examples of tanks with rough brushstrokes abound. Do whatever seems fun to you. That's the good thing about German armour. :-)

As I agree that a lot of tanks were delivered in Dark Yellow only ....There are many tanks that left the factories already painted in the camo schemes ..The Hetzer comes to mind as having very preticular schemes done in the factory.. Another thing to remember is that those done in the field would probably all be done at the same time by the maintenance group of a Abteilung,or regiment or company or what ever ,...So most vehicles would look quite the same in the same platoon.(except for replacement vehicles).

Rick

Rick,

Only the late production Hetzers were delivered factory painted. The earlier ones were done by the crews, as the rest of the tanks.
More often than not it were the crews that did the painting, rather than maintenance unit. This explains the wild variety of schemes within units as small as a squad. Plenty of photographic evidence backs this up.

Has anyone tried the metallic base-coat scheme for better paint chips (described better above)?

Hi
I tend to agree with Romanowski.
It all matches the info of the 3 book set of Squadron's Panzer colours.
The crews even used mud or clay as a camo colour/pattern.

It may be a good guide to see that there is hardly, if ever, two schemes that are identical even when using the same colours or "official" pattern, which suggests the final camo scheme was an interpretation of the crew.

Cheers
Peter

Oh I do agree that alot were done by crews but if you look at the tiger Abteilungs they were in "most " instances at least all painted in the same color scheme... You won't see one tiger Yellow and redbrown while the one beside it being yellow and green ..etc. That's what I meant about decisions taken at a certain level.....I think by the late part of 44 you could say most tanks were being done at the factories..at least there is evidence of at least Panthers ,KT's and Hetzers... Remember that the Panzer colors books are getting kinda old and alot has been discovered since then... But when it all comes down to it ..If you want to paint your tank as if the crew has painted it ...You are pretty sure you'll be okay..Who's gonna say it couldn't have happened. Not me!

Rick

It wasn't until the fall of 44 that the factories started applying the patterns.
As late as the summer of 44 you'd see tanks in individual squads that were totally different from eachother, even in Tiger battalions. I'll try to post some pics of the Sch.Pz.Abt 503 to show what I mean.

I did say "MOST" lol

Rick

You got me on that one :-)