I think I've got my "plan" for my "Battle of the Bulge" Campaign diorama going pretty well, but would appreciate any feedback and suggestions.
I want to show a road in the "Ardennes" (no duh) with a turn around a high bank w/trees blocking view. This is early in around corner. Around in one direction is to be a US M8 and Jeep (recon) with the M8 "casually" changing out a tire. A couple GIs will be running back, yelling for them to "Get the #@&& out of here!". The reason is to be around the corner in other direction in the form of either a Sturm IV or Panther G with deploying Volksgrenadiers headed in the M8's direction. Hopefully I haven't got this so involved that I can't complete it in time; it seems to keep growing in scope. Thanks,

Blade48mrd

That's a nice idea, I wonder how you will do the face expressions.

Dragonslain

Thanks. I usually use a hot knife or pin to open up the mouth area some. Fortunately, there are several makers that supply "extra" heads and I keep several on hand for backup for the inevitable "oops" situations. I hope to be set up with necessary pictures to start posting process when Campaign starts.

Blade48mrd

Growing in scope is good!! I think. Excellent idea.

Jay

Hey, im not sure if im ready to do a campain yet because i am just starting my first dio. but i was thinking about joining the Battle of the Bulge . i was going to do a WW1 Meuse Argonnes Offensive of 1918. My great grampa was artillary in WW1 and he made a diary. he was in the muese argonnes offensive. So i was thinking if i was going to do somthing like that it would be in memorial of him? would you be able to do that because it was the argonnes forest.

Blade48mrd,

I think your diorama will look great. The concept is nice and the adddition of the jeep will add to its "logic."

Boy, I wish there were extra heads available here so I could detail the expressions. I have to make available of what we have here. Oh well.....

TsunamiBomb, the "Battle of the Bulge" campaign is about the Battle in the Ardennes forest in World War 2. I'm not sure if your WW1 dio would fit into the theme. You can PM Shonen_Red if he will allow it as he is the campaign leader.

Angela

Blade48mrd u have a great idea for dio setup , that sounds tight enough .
i hope that u ll starta asap the Campaign is running so we can see some noce shots of the work


Costas

good idea !

But I hink that you're gonna have a problem with the size of the dio !
A tracked tank advancing on a road makes a lot of noise... so if you want your M8 crew not be aware of the approaching tank it has to be far away...

Hmm, just for the record and to add to the educational caracter of Armorama :-) ...

The Ardennes is a region in the south of Belgium and a part of the north of France. Yes it is mostly a wooded area but it's not de denomination of a forest a such.

for more info:

http://www.ardennes-info.be/index.php/en.html

Ok, enough of this chauvinistic babbling...

Kris

Penpen -
Good point and I'd been thinking about that also. Maybe if the Panther was stopped getting ammunition and/or some fuel with the Volksgrenadiers moving forward. That way neither vehicle is actually moving and it would be just that the GIs discover what is about to head there way. Think this might work better?

Blade48mrd

To be honnest, i have dificulties imagining both vehicles serviceable in the same dio... but that's just my personnal opinion and taste !

Other possibilities I find more realistic : the panther has been abandonned from lack of fuel and the GI's are inspecting it...
or the GIs are servicing the M8 and grenadiers are silently advancing...
But I'm no military expert and some things that don't look realistic to me might very well be very realistic !

If the panther crew and the volksgranadier had a stop they would hear the M8 and the Jeep coming for sure, they would be attacking even before they started to repair the M8.

I must not understand the scene... so you have a curved road with an elevation. The Panzer is coming DOWN the road, and on the lower level, you have an M8 that is stopped.... if I'm right, then the shear noise of the hard clanking Panzer would easily be heard by the guys working on the M8.. you wouldn't need anyone to come warn them... they would hear that sucker quite a ways in the distance - or did I just totally misunderstand the scene?

OR:
You could have the jeep, the Greyhound, and the Panther, with GIs' and Wehrmacht standing around watching the tire change...

Didn't they have Germans dressed as Americans, and with captured American equipment during the Battle of the Bulge? It's a far stretch but you could say it was a meeting of the impersonators and their German comrades...

It's a thought...

I think artistic license is important here. The scene that Blade described is very interesting. It shows the surprise, the horror and the desperation in the Battle of the Buldge.

To effectively show that, it is important to show both operations at the same time. That means you have to divert a little from reality to grab the meaning of the situation. It would be very difficult for Blade to have a dio solely based on reality....that the Panther should be really far so that the GI's changing the tire of the M8 won't hear the enemy tank. Doing this will make blow the diorama out of proportion.

I still go with the original idea.

Angela

I agree with Angela. The original idea is fine. As in all diorama modeling you usually need to use some "selective compression" in the scene to get the message across, especially in such a story as being told in this prospective scene. I like the drama in this one. Besides, who is to say what other noises are in the back ground here? I say go for it.

Never heard of "artistic license" ???

I'd say Blade go ahead. I'm of the opinion that every modeller should have fun in doing what he does.

It doesn't always have to be "Historically" correct.

Btw, for those who want to be absolutely correct, sometimes you can "feel" a tank before your hear it.
A tank in continious motion is sometimes actually quite quiet.

Kris

Blade - don't get me wrong here... as was stated above the key thing in model building is "having fun".....

I hope you don't take it that I'm testing your idea... I'm not actually criticizing the layout design or concept ... As I stated, I just wasn't sure I understood the proposal... it sounded to me like it was going to actually be a fairly large diorama (my favoite!).

Certainly in large battle like "the Bulge" there could be plenty of other noise (shell fire, other tanks in the area, aircraft, etc.) that could muffle and diffuse the sound of a closer tank... especially if the two points are seperated by elevation, as well as the woods in the area.

I think that the 'surprise' effect is not far fetched at all. At the strart of the offensive the situation was so confussed that most allied troops were not even fully aware what was going on and where. It is quite conceivable that the G.I.'s have no idea that the aproaching Tank is not one of their own, untill it is to late. It would probably help the casual onlooker if you would 'date' the diorama, for example in the title.

It saounds like a good idea, go for it.

Cheers
Henk

I think it is impossible for someone not to hear the squeaky sound of tracks, but they probably thought it was one of their own tanks so they started to change the tire anyways.

After hearing the tank getting closer(assuming the tank is coming form a blind spot from where it could not be seen) . They soon start to doubt and send someone to check out who it is, but it is too late as the tank aproaches fast and is only a few yards away.

A good idea really .

To all my sincerest thanks for your inputs and ideas. This process is what makes this site so fantastic, an opportunity to get honest, helpful, and valuable feedback. I've really enjoyed the feedback and working with the interpretations which have helped a great deal in the planning and working out details. I'm in agreement that maybe a tweek is needed to make it a little more plausible and give a better sense of the situation. This is meant to be in the initial phases of the offensive when all was so much confusion for the Allies. As Henk suggests, I'll work on a good descriptive title. The road is to be a basically the same level with a "hair pin" curve that prevents line of sight. I'm still playing with the dimensions so it is big enough to be plausible without getting too big to complete in time (may be continued or even expand later).
As Dragonslain points out, the GIs could have been checking out the "noise" and are running back with a warning like "It's not one of ours!!! Could even change situation away from the M8 changing a tire to having them in process of turning around in kind of a panic to head the other way knowing they are way out-matched. I feeding on the feedback so keep it coming. Others out there planning their "Bulge" projects? Thanks again,

Blade48mrd

now you got yourself a title. I think the title also explains why they had not checked whose tank it was, assuming it was one of their's. Maybe a contrast between the perfectly relaxed soldiers changing a tire and the soldier who is rushing to get out.

Can't wait to see it-this really sounds great!

I love the idea, but from what i hear of the comments on panzer noise, i'd like to put forth yet another suggestion: maybe the panzer could be refueling/rearming/repairing, and the crew and small escort could be scrambling to mount a defensive against the M8 that is about to round the corner. unless m8s are as loud as panzers

One thing to keep in mind, despite the overall noise the tank would make, heavily forested areas, with heavy cloud cover and/or fog have both the effect of deadening the sound as well as being deceiving from which direction the sound is coming from. To have the scene as you describe would not only be plausible but also in the event of even the slightest snow coverage could conceivable be possible.

Jay