hi all.
im currently working on my Ardennes offensive dio. yes for the campaign of course.
what i have in mind is one big dio this time. but theres a problem with the tank that ive just finished and it seems that theres to many figures to include.
and i think i need some advice with what what ive got down here.

okay, this is what ive got
Tanks and Vehicles
1) a Tiger 1 from Das Reich, tank number S13 with 3 crew in winter camo resupplying =100% finished
(im not quit sure about putting the tank in the dio.)

2) a sdkfz 250 (10% finished) not quite sure what color or camo sceme they used in the ardennes

3) a kubelwagen

4) a bmw with side car

Soldiers or figure
1) 8 guys from the 3rd fallschrimjagger division taking a smoke break (from DML)

2) 4 smoking ss guys

3) 4 walking volksgrenadiers and 2 more walking guys

4) 4 walking HG division guys (ive paint them to suite the ardennes offensive outfitt)

5) a couple of sitting figures.

The basic idea is to have a TIGER 1 tank resupplying at one of the small field supply dump somewhere near the battlefield.
Theres a small supply dump, and a briefing site near it where the four SS (scouts from the Halftrack) and the paratroopers having a discussion with some officer there.
Passing by is the walking soldiers, marching to the front...

well thats the idea.
My problem is the Tiger1, ive done a lil research and found out that the Das Reich with Tiger 1 tanks fought in the ardennes, but i dont know what is the color scme of the tank.
Shud i stick to the original idea or do i need to built another tank for the dio, perhaps a panther to replace the tiger.

Well...?

Good to hear another Ardennes participant

Can you post pics of the Tiger? Was it first painted in ambush scheme and then applied a whitewash? If yes, that will do.

Or... you can buy a King Tiger. Wayyy looks cooler for your diorama

Not sure that the Tiger1 was in the offensive mainly Tiger11 and Panthers+assault guns

it reminds me too much of Wacht am Rien if you look in the gallery theres a dio.

yeah it reminded me of that too, hey im buiklding a dio of the 2nd SS das reich in 1944 do u have any good resouces on this (pics markings etc)
ian

Just remember a good whitewash can cover up most any inaccuracy in reference to a camo scheme. The whitewash can hint at the scheme or cover it up completely. From what I gather, this is a theoretical scenerio, yet want to include a specific tank. That doesn't really match. I'd say either go completely accuracte, or more practically, use the tank number as a sort of generic scene. This is very ambitious, but whether you include the Tiger or not, it'll look great. My opinion, I'd stick with your Tiger. You have already completed it. You might as well use it.

Anyway, post pics so we can see how you are doing.

Jeff

here is the proposed tank, i think i shud wash it with white. as adviced by jeff. and the terrain will be a lil snowy dont chu think. but the fallscrirmjaggers are not in their hooded winter parka. mmmmm





i'll post more pictures of the finished figs and the halftrack

in the Ardennes Offensive the soldiers didnt really have a paint scheme but to splatter white paint ALL over the tank. The paint was usually based with gas or any other liquid they could find besides water. Pretty much the soldiers didnt have enough time to paint it fully white so they just did small sections of white. If your going to do this. make it look messy and look like it was done in a rush. have the base coat still there on the edges and other places. This model was done by angela, sorry its not a tiger but the paint scheme is the same concept.

Guys,

as far as I know, by the start of the Ardennes offensive, it still had not snowed; so I think it is quite possible to have German vehicles without whitewash at that point in time... As a matter of fact, in the Osprey Campaign series volume about the Ardennes Offensive, there are a good number of pics of German knocked out vehicles (Stug ??, two Panther, halftrack) without the whitewash (one Panther has snow packed onto it).... Can someone PLEASE tell me wether I am right or wrong ?. If I am right, I think it could well be feasible to have German infantry still walking around in hoodless parka's... Just make sure it is not summer dress....actually on the of the pics show what I think are Fallschirmjaeger without the hooded winter-parka's.. Another shows soldiers wearing what seems to be pea pattern smocks while snow has fallen...with the pea pattern on the outside...

As Angela suggested, many of the vehicles did have whitewash splashed onto them in a haphazard manner. Though some actually did have a hard-edge scheme (IIRC there is a pic of a Panther with white/green (?) hardedge camo which almost forms an eybrow no the glacis plate).

Anyway,

good luck with your dio !!!

Dutchbird has beaten me to it, but I think he's right. I don't think the Germans went into the battle in winter camo as there was no (substansial) snow at that time. If I remember correctly the waether was quuite good to start with and the Luftwaffe even made an appearance. I thought that the weather help the German advance to be as speady as it was. When the weather turned they bogged down ( I think they should have learned that lesson somewhere else, but that is for another discussion), aswel as running out of fuel, which turned the battle. I would not apply white wash unless you have some pic's to confirm.

Cheers
Henk

Hi sicktunez,

Do you have mind powers? Actually, I am doing a diorama exactly like your idea....in some region in the Ardennes with some soldiers briefing and a column of Volksgrenadiers passing by. In fact, I have those Fallshcimjaggers and the Volksgrenadiers. My diorama is almost complete. I just need the groundwork and a few accessories to put into.

We differ in the vehicles, though. I'm using an sdkfz 223 armored recon car, a Panzer IV H and that half track Tsunamibomb posted.

I am not sure about the Ardennes history on what units were used so I can't help you with that. That is why I used a "generic" tank..the Panzer IV. Also since my dio is set in early winter, there are only a few purely white uniforms. Most of my figures are painted with autumn pea camo or field gray overcoats.

If the Tiger was indeed used in the Ardenes (and if you are planning to put it in your dio. I'd suggest putting it there because you've already built it. I'm pretty sure they were using some Tigers), here's what I would suggest if you opt not doing the winter camo scheme:

First, protect the paint by spraying an overcoat. Then, mix up a wash made of white oil/paint/watercolor. The wash should be 30% paint and 70% thinner.

Airbrush or brush this wash on your model. This will create a nice misty, snowy appearance for your Tiger. Depending on your preference, you can apply a heavy or a light wash.

This would depict either of the following:

1) white wash of the Tiger being washed off from travelling, weather, winds, being licked by the Germans, etc.
2) fresh snow falling or sticking on the Tiger.
3) and in a strictly modeling sense, the whitewash will NOT cover your beautiful camo color scheme while maintaining a snowy appearance

I'll be doing the same misting technique for my Panzer IV.

This would be authentic....whether the vehicle was really washed or not during the real battle of the Ardennes.

Just my thought.

Angela

Hi all,

Let me fill you in on some points here:

- It wasn't snowing when the battle started, the snow only started 3-4 days later.

- Hardly any German vehicles had a white wash on the ETO (I don't say there weren't any...). This was mainly used on the russian plains where a tank would stick out quite obviously. The Ardennes is mainly a heavily wooded area with 90% pine trees, so a normal camouflaged tank isn't such a bad idea...

-About equipment used? If you don some research, I think you will come up with anything. The Germans used nearly everything they had available




Kris

Sicktunez -
I've been working on the "gathering" portion of my Bulge Campaign project; the kits/accessories and information. What I've found tracks right along with what Crossbow" brought out. The initial stages, at least the first couple days, of the offensive dealt with colder weather, but mainly muddy conditions not snow yet. AFVs were not white-washed (not saying this wasn't the situation in every case) as that would tend to make the vehicle stand out against the darker background of the terrain and pine forests. The uniforms seemed to be varied from SS using the "reversible winter-over [camo/white]" or "four pocket camo jackets over field grey uniform" or the "older camo pull-over smock and 1944 camo uniforms", and about any mixture of these (Ref: Osprey's "Ardennes 1944".
Vehicles seemed much the same way, mixing what was available to the best to fit needs. Panzer Regiments should have had two Battalions, one of Panthers and one of Panzer IVs with each Company at about 14 tanks by Nov 1944 though this could not be universally achieved. Some Regiments had Battalions partially (or entirely) equipped with StuGs. Other Regiments had other Panzers or Panzerjagers Battalions attached as second Battalions, like 1SS with schwere SS-Panzer-Abteilung 501 (Tiger IIs), 12 SS with schwere SS-Panzer-Jager 560 (Jagdpanthers and StuGs), Panzer-Lehr-Division with schwere SS-Panzer-Jager 559 (Jagdpanthers and StuGs), and 10 SS with schwere SS-Panzer-Jager 655 (Jagdpanthers and StuGs) for example. Panzer Divisions did have Jagdpanzer IVs in usually two Companies of the Panzer-Jager-Abteilungs. Jagdpanzer 38(t)s were not allocated to Panzer Divisions but were part of the Sturm-Geschutz-Kompanie of Infantry divisions that did not receive StuGs. Panzer Divisions had SdKfz 138 Bisons with a Division's Panzergrenadier-Regiments and SdKpz 124 Wespe and Sdkfz 165 Hummels in 2-3 Companies of Panzer-Artillerie-Regiments. Panzer IV Wirbelwinds made up much of the SP Anti-Aircraft Companies. Sorry to be so long winded, but thought this might help so. Not by any means "the authoritative" answer and maybe others can add. Looking forward to hearing and seeing more as the "Bulge" Campaign moves on,

Blade48mrd

OK, with the picture book "ardennen 44-45" on my lap,
I can tell you I found pictures of following German panzers:

Tiger II
Panther
Stug III
Jagdpanzer IV/70
Jagdpanther
Wirbelwind
Pzkfw IV
Brumbärr

Miscelleanous other vehicles like Sdkfz251, Puma,...

Concerning the weather:

The offensive started the 16th of december.
The northern sector (St-vith-malmedy) there was no snow, it started snowing after 3 days.

The southern sector (Bastogne) had some mild snow from day 1.

All sectors encountered heavy snowfall around christmas.

Hope this helps.

Kris

THANKS guys.
i really appriciate yer help.
my final say is to stick with the tiger and not gonna wash it with white (anyway thanks angela)

one of the scenario of my dio is that theres a recon team with a sdkfz 251 just come back from a reconaisance mission and reporting to their superior officer at one small field operation camp. theres some mixture of soldiers from the falschrimjagger divison and the ss smoking and resting. There u can see some ammunition boxes, supply and fuel cans laying arround well organized.

and theres a number of soldiers walking to the front.

somewhere at the background theres gonna be the tiger 1 with 2 guys resuplying it. i will add some more figures to the proposed dio to live it up a lil bit more...

i'll post the photos when i get back home later end of this week. now im bussy with work so i gotta stay here near the office and cant get my hands on the dio.

THANKS GUYS!!!!!