Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
"next one"syndorme
godfather
Canada
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:05 AM UTC
I built a horch as a practice model. I bought a pzk 2 and decided this model would receive more attention and patience. Well I filled the seams with putty and made a mess. It then became a practice model My next model will be the real thing Do you guys have that experience. I am learning mostly about what not to do!! I also realize that when a model becomes a practice model I'm more lax on doing things like filing etc. I need to get some PATIENCE
BobTavis
Texas, United States
Joined: March 12, 2002
KitMaker: 219 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: March 12, 2002
KitMaker: 219 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I Do you guys have that experience. I am learning mostly about what not to do!! I also realize that when a model becomes a practice model I'm more lax on doing things like filing etc.
Here's how it goes: you will build many models and with each one you will learn something new. With each one you will develop your skills and each one is an opportunity to practice getting better in assembly, painting, conversion, etc..
As a musician I learned that good chops come from something called "woodshedding." This means that you only get really good by doing something so many times and failing so many times that you eventually master it.
Every model is an opportunity to get better but only if you do not lose sight of that simple principle. If you do then every model you build will not be the next step in your personal development but the same step over and over and over... with no advancement.
GunTruck
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextI Do you guys have that experience. I am learning mostly about what not to do!! I also realize that when a model becomes a practice model I'm more lax on doing things like filing etc.
Here's how it goes: you will build many models and with each one you will learn something new. With each one you will develop your skills and each one is an opportunity to practice getting better in assembly, painting, conversion, etc..
As a musician I learned that good chops come from something called "woodshedding." This means that you only get really good by doing something so many times and failing so many times that you eventually master it.
Every model is an opportunity to get better but only if you do not lose sight of that simple principle. If you do then every model you build will not be the next step in your personal development but the same step over and over and over... with no advancement.
Nothing else to add to this excellent advice - other than - right on!
Gunnie
ARENGCA
Arizona, United States
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Joined: February 13, 2002
KitMaker: 382 posts
Armorama: 267 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 05:56 AM UTC
Try something. If it works, add it to your skills box. If it doesn't work, try something else, vary the technique, or decide it isn't worth it. Read, watch, listen...get an idea for another thing to try. Try it. Repeat.
One neat thing about this hobby is that there is always something to learn, something to try, a new challenge. You never can learn it all. Each technique or idea you try will expand your skills, and you will be able to do more and more. Eventually you will start coming up with ideas of your own to try, and the learning goes on.
Start simple and don't try to build a "Best of Show". Build a "Best of Me" and admire what you did. Think of it this way. People first learning to play the piano learn simple tunes. At the recital, no one expects Beethoven or Vivaldi. Those who appreciate the difficulty and effort will applaud for every student. Even the master pianists started out this way, and no one expects any different. Eventually though...masterpieces...they play the masters...some will write their own music... Modelling is the same. A simple project, well executed indicates mastery of certain skills. A more complex project indicates different, more complex skills, which are based one the simpler skills learned before.
There is no roadmap for how to make good models. Just do it. If you don't like something, do it different the next time. Always try your best, and it will show. AND HAVE FUN!! or it is all wasted time.
One neat thing about this hobby is that there is always something to learn, something to try, a new challenge. You never can learn it all. Each technique or idea you try will expand your skills, and you will be able to do more and more. Eventually you will start coming up with ideas of your own to try, and the learning goes on.
Start simple and don't try to build a "Best of Show". Build a "Best of Me" and admire what you did. Think of it this way. People first learning to play the piano learn simple tunes. At the recital, no one expects Beethoven or Vivaldi. Those who appreciate the difficulty and effort will applaud for every student. Even the master pianists started out this way, and no one expects any different. Eventually though...masterpieces...they play the masters...some will write their own music... Modelling is the same. A simple project, well executed indicates mastery of certain skills. A more complex project indicates different, more complex skills, which are based one the simpler skills learned before.
There is no roadmap for how to make good models. Just do it. If you don't like something, do it different the next time. Always try your best, and it will show. AND HAVE FUN!! or it is all wasted time.
cfbush2000
North Dakota, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,796 posts
Armorama: 1,207 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,796 posts
Armorama: 1,207 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 10:32 AM UTC
I've been building , on and off, for a few years, and I've turned out afew practice models.
I've found that if I try to rush, I mess up. So, if I hit a snag, I put the modelaside and do something else. And now, I come here to see what I can learn. There's always something.
Hang in there. You'll improve with time.
I've found that if I try to rush, I mess up. So, if I hit a snag, I put the modelaside and do something else. And now, I come here to see what I can learn. There's always something.
Hang in there. You'll improve with time.
Norseman
Oslo, Norway
Joined: April 26, 2002
KitMaker: 270 posts
Armorama: 177 posts
Joined: April 26, 2002
KitMaker: 270 posts
Armorama: 177 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 01:54 PM UTC
I think I also have that "next one" syndrome.
In the last two years, I've bought quite a few kits, and started on some.
I have some half built "great" kits in the closet waiting for me to become a better modeller.
Because... you know... I don't wanna ruin the best kits.
But I guess the smart thing to do is to take my time and build them all. Then, in a couple of years, maybe my skills have improved and I can buy that "great kit" again and build it once more.
In the last two years, I've bought quite a few kits, and started on some.
I have some half built "great" kits in the closet waiting for me to become a better modeller.
Because... you know... I don't wanna ruin the best kits.
But I guess the smart thing to do is to take my time and build them all. Then, in a couple of years, maybe my skills have improved and I can buy that "great kit" again and build it once more.
Eagle
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: May 22, 2002
KitMaker: 4,082 posts
Armorama: 1,993 posts
Joined: May 22, 2002
KitMaker: 4,082 posts
Armorama: 1,993 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:05 PM UTC
Padrino,
I have an old F15 (1/32 scale) as a practice object. All new methods are tested on that thing. If it works, the tested method will be declared operational if it doesn't, I'll try something else.
The kits I build "for real" get all the attention they deserve. If something goes wrong........I'll start again.
Maybe it's a good idea to set the goals for the next kit. Determine what you want to do with it, for example:
This model has to be:
perfectly glued, but remains unpainted
all parts have to be perfectly sanded and filed
The next model you can set the goals to something like :
perfectly glued, and will be painted in the main colour
all parts have to be perfectly sanded and filed
do things one step at a time. Each model you can add some new feature and improve the existing ones.
I have an old F15 (1/32 scale) as a practice object. All new methods are tested on that thing. If it works, the tested method will be declared operational if it doesn't, I'll try something else.
The kits I build "for real" get all the attention they deserve. If something goes wrong........I'll start again.
Maybe it's a good idea to set the goals for the next kit. Determine what you want to do with it, for example:
This model has to be:
perfectly glued, but remains unpainted
all parts have to be perfectly sanded and filed
The next model you can set the goals to something like :
perfectly glued, and will be painted in the main colour
all parts have to be perfectly sanded and filed
do things one step at a time. Each model you can add some new feature and improve the existing ones.
Envar
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, August 15, 2002 - 02:46 PM UTC
I mainly do figures so itīs not so big deal to try things on and redo it if something goes wrong. What annoys me is when I try some technique, mess it up and try something else, the first try leaves some effect on the model, and it can actually look great later with more layers on! The problem is, how to duplicate this kind of "random" effect! If I had to make many figures for the same dio, one solution would be to paint all of them individually. Iīm sure there would be MANY variations of flesh colour, for example!
In reality objects are exposed to so many variables that it seems impossible to achieve the same effect with controlled techniques. These random things are the biggest challenge for me. Every time I "use a technique" successfully, it lacks a personal touch, some feeling that comes to a model when something goes wrong and I try to recover it.
I try not to think one model as a practice piece and put all my effort in making the other one as great as it ever could be. When I put pressure on myself I donīt work naturally and relaxed and my intuitivity suffers from that. Intuition, gut feel, whatever you like to call it, thatīs where my decisions come from and all the exact tips and tricks available go through that filter.
Toni
In reality objects are exposed to so many variables that it seems impossible to achieve the same effect with controlled techniques. These random things are the biggest challenge for me. Every time I "use a technique" successfully, it lacks a personal touch, some feeling that comes to a model when something goes wrong and I try to recover it.
I try not to think one model as a practice piece and put all my effort in making the other one as great as it ever could be. When I put pressure on myself I donīt work naturally and relaxed and my intuitivity suffers from that. Intuition, gut feel, whatever you like to call it, thatīs where my decisions come from and all the exact tips and tricks available go through that filter.
Toni
CaptainJack
Luxembourg, Belgium
Joined: March 17, 2002
KitMaker: 793 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: March 17, 2002
KitMaker: 793 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, August 16, 2002 - 02:03 AM UTC
The only thing I would add, that hasn't already been said in the above excellent advice is the following:
Do not cut corners, or take short cuts. I am a firm believer in doing everything right as possible. It is not because you don't or won't see the underside of a chassis that you shouldn't paint it. The reason behind this is that this leads to something worse than the next model syndrome. This leads inevitably to what the heck syndrome,... it isn't going to be seen anyways. The crux of the problem is that one day you risk overlooking or skipping an important item for the sake of facility. While the primary function is to have fun, there is a more serious side that requires greater attention (if you want your work to be "accepted and respected"). Overlooking a scraped seam, or not filling in a PIJ (Pin injection mark) can add to the overall loss in quality on your models. I think that this love and respect is reflected from the very opening of the box to the final application of the decals. Sure you won't always be satisfied (I neveer am) but that quest for the holy grail is part of what this great hobby is all about. I wish you the best in your endeavors, and am certain you shall succeed. After all seeking is the first step in succeeding. (Geez I think I'll add that one to my signature, quite Zen!)
Kind Regards,
Captain Jack
Do not cut corners, or take short cuts. I am a firm believer in doing everything right as possible. It is not because you don't or won't see the underside of a chassis that you shouldn't paint it. The reason behind this is that this leads to something worse than the next model syndrome. This leads inevitably to what the heck syndrome,... it isn't going to be seen anyways. The crux of the problem is that one day you risk overlooking or skipping an important item for the sake of facility. While the primary function is to have fun, there is a more serious side that requires greater attention (if you want your work to be "accepted and respected"). Overlooking a scraped seam, or not filling in a PIJ (Pin injection mark) can add to the overall loss in quality on your models. I think that this love and respect is reflected from the very opening of the box to the final application of the decals. Sure you won't always be satisfied (I neveer am) but that quest for the holy grail is part of what this great hobby is all about. I wish you the best in your endeavors, and am certain you shall succeed. After all seeking is the first step in succeeding. (Geez I think I'll add that one to my signature, quite Zen!)
Kind Regards,
Captain Jack
AJLaFleche
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Friday, August 16, 2002 - 02:20 AM UTC
All that has been said is great. I'll add one more. Join a model club or start one from your local hobby shop if you're lucky enough to have one. Meetings ca be at someone's home, or maybe at the hobby shop. The owner will likely be very opensince it will bring more people into his store. Focus he meetings on modeling, encourage people to bring in works in progress as well as completed projects. Make as much of the meeting time social time to tlak models and skills and techniques.