How about the logs siding a tank turret? Are they used for a case that the tank gets stuck in mud or for extra "armor"?
Toni B Beginner
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What is zimmerit?
Envar
Joined: March 07, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 02:55 PM UTC
What exactly is zimmerit? Some kind of early version of active armor?
How about the logs siding a tank turret? Are they used for a case that the tank gets stuck in mud or for extra "armor"?
Toni B Beginner
How about the logs siding a tank turret? Are they used for a case that the tank gets stuck in mud or for extra "armor"?
Toni B Beginner
TUGA
#034
Joined: April 26, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 04:51 PM UTC
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 05:00 PM UTC
It's the paste like coating that was applied to most of German AFV started from 42 till 44, the main function was to prevent magnetic hollow charge bombs. Wehrmacht had a tendence to always develop counter measure for any weapon they possessed.
The ingredients of the paste is something like wood dust, and some other stuff, I can go check my books and give you some more information, it's applied either in the factory or sometimes rarely in the field. And it's usually applied on vertical surface of the AFV, i.e. Tank and Stugs, etc. There are a number of patterns, most usual is ridge pattern, and there are also some other pattern, such as waffel, square, etc.
You can find Zimmerit on Pz IV Ausf H, J, Panther, jagdPanther, Stugs, Tiger I, Tiger II, etc. It was discontinued because it's very flammable.
HTH.
The ingredients of the paste is something like wood dust, and some other stuff, I can go check my books and give you some more information, it's applied either in the factory or sometimes rarely in the field. And it's usually applied on vertical surface of the AFV, i.e. Tank and Stugs, etc. There are a number of patterns, most usual is ridge pattern, and there are also some other pattern, such as waffel, square, etc.
You can find Zimmerit on Pz IV Ausf H, J, Panther, jagdPanther, Stugs, Tiger I, Tiger II, etc. It was discontinued because it's very flammable.
HTH.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 06:32 PM UTC
Zimmerit is basically a concrete cement added to the horizontal surfaces to prevent magnetic mines from being attached by infantry.
Logs on the side of the US vehicles is there to give a stand-off to the shaped charge-type weapons such as the panzerfaust. The USMC also used plank wooden armor on the sides of their tanks in the same manner that the Germans used zimmerit. (See the Italeri USMC M4 Sherman)
Logs on the side of the US vehicles is there to give a stand-off to the shaped charge-type weapons such as the panzerfaust. The USMC also used plank wooden armor on the sides of their tanks in the same manner that the Germans used zimmerit. (See the Italeri USMC M4 Sherman)
Envar
Joined: March 07, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 07:01 PM UTC
Tanks, this cleared a thing or two!
I´ve also seen wood used in Russian vehicles and I´m about to use some to cover the not-too-detailed T-38 turret...plus some branches over engine department to prevent Molotov coctail bottles braking in a vulnerable area.
Thx for the info!
Toni
I´ve also seen wood used in Russian vehicles and I´m about to use some to cover the not-too-detailed T-38 turret...plus some branches over engine department to prevent Molotov coctail bottles braking in a vulnerable area.
Thx for the info!
Toni
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 07:20 PM UTC
Hi Rob, I think the Zimmerit were mostly applied to the vertical areas.
sgtreef
Joined: March 01, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 07:35 PM UTC
well look at a tiger just about everwhere you could apply it . The Big logs on Russian stuff was mostly to help in the mud. Question did Amercian tanks carry saws? To cut wood have never seen any like Russian tanks and German tanks come to think of it never saw to many on German tanks either.
MLD
Joined: July 21, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 08:42 PM UTC
Like other folks said, Zimmerit was a paste with a cellulose component (wood pulp?) that was designed to keep magnetic mines from sticking. Also like others said, the Germans were the only ones with magnetic mines..
From what I remember reading, Zimmerit was thought to be flamable by the field troops but when tested was found not to be. I think I remember reading that in the "Panther: A quest for Combat Supremacy"
Sorry, I'm away from my references at the moment.
Mike
From what I remember reading, Zimmerit was thought to be flamable by the field troops but when tested was found not to be. I think I remember reading that in the "Panther: A quest for Combat Supremacy"
Sorry, I'm away from my references at the moment.
Mike
Sohcahtoa
Joined: June 27, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 10:28 PM UTC
I pulled a piece of Zimmerit off a real wirbelwind the other day #:-)
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Monday, August 19, 2002 - 11:52 PM UTC
We'll be waiting patiently for your expert analysis, Sohcahtoa.
I've read similar things to what the others have said. From pictures, zimmerit was only applied to verticle surfaces. One thing I haven't got straight though, was whether the zimmerit was actually antimagnetic, or if the ridged texture of it prevented mines from sticking. Can anyone tell me for sure how it worked?
Nic
I've read similar things to what the others have said. From pictures, zimmerit was only applied to verticle surfaces. One thing I haven't got straight though, was whether the zimmerit was actually antimagnetic, or if the ridged texture of it prevented mines from sticking. Can anyone tell me for sure how it worked?
Nic
Sohcahtoa
Joined: June 27, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 01:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
One thing I haven't got straight though, was whether the zimmerit was actually antimagnetic, or if the ridged texture of it prevented mines from sticking.
Nic
well my piece here isn't magnetic, checked it myself with a fridge magnet
Mr.Bob
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 03:06 AM UTC
Hi guys,
Two comments:
1-I've seen photos of Stug III with logs on them. Again, the captions say they were for unditching/getting out of the Russian mud. Of course, slung on the sides the logs could provide some protection.
2 - Did you get the zimmerit off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden?
I saw there was some zimmerit on a couple of vehicles there. I'm not trying to be a drag here, but I'm not sure how ethical/legal it is to take pieces off those vehicles. I know a lot of it is picked off (you can see where pieces of zim are chipped off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden), but these are historical pieces in a museum setting. Yes they are outside, but I'm not sure we're supposed to take souvenirs!
Andy
Two comments:
1-I've seen photos of Stug III with logs on them. Again, the captions say they were for unditching/getting out of the Russian mud. Of course, slung on the sides the logs could provide some protection.
2 - Did you get the zimmerit off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden?
I saw there was some zimmerit on a couple of vehicles there. I'm not trying to be a drag here, but I'm not sure how ethical/legal it is to take pieces off those vehicles. I know a lot of it is picked off (you can see where pieces of zim are chipped off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden), but these are historical pieces in a museum setting. Yes they are outside, but I'm not sure we're supposed to take souvenirs!
Andy
Paul_Owen
Joined: May 11, 2002
KitMaker: 140 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 03:21 AM UTC
Quoted Text
One thing I haven't got straight though, was whether the zimmerit was actually antimagnetic, or if the ridged texture of it prevented mines from sticking. Can anyone tell me for sure how it worked?
There is no such thing as an anti-magnetic substance, the laws of physics do not allow this. Zimmerit worked by creating distance between the tank's magnetic hull and the magnet of the mine, the force of magnetic attraction reduces as a cube of this distance. Zimmerit also defeated sticky bombs by creating a rough surface for the glue on the mine to adhere to.
Sohcahtoa
Joined: June 27, 2002
KitMaker: 35 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
2 - Did you get the zimmerit off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden?
I saw there was some zimmerit on a couple of vehicles there. I'm not trying to be a drag here, but I'm not sure how ethical/legal it is to take pieces off those vehicles. I know a lot of it is picked off (you can see where pieces of zim are chipped off the Wirbelwind at Camp Borden), but these are historical pieces in a museum setting. Yes they are outside, but I'm not sure we're supposed to take souvenirs!
Andy
It's historical research... not vandalism
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
There is no such thing as an anti-magnetic substance, the laws of physics do not allow this. Zimmerit worked by creating distance between the tank's magnetic hull and the magnet of the mine, the force of magnetic attraction reduces as a cube of this distance. Zimmerit also defeated sticky bombs by creating a rough surface for the glue on the mine to adhere to.
Paul--Thank you for reminding me about the laws of physics. What you wrote is what I thought I had read somewhere before. Would magnetic mines still stick, then, or would this distance coupled with the rough surface make them fall off? If they did stick, was the zimmerit able to prevent the blast from damaging the tank?
As an aside, it appears we Canadians are especially interested in zimmerit. Any suggestions as to why this might be so?
Nic
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 09:43 AM UTC
Despite my flag of Hong Kong, I am Canadian citizen too, yep, we love Zimmerits!
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:10 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Duh, yes. the up and down sides Hi Rob, I think the Zimmerit were mostly applied to the vertical areas.
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 11:19 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDuh, yes. the up and down sidesHi Rob, I think the Zimmerit were mostly applied to the vertical areas.
General, I had went through some books last night, you are also correct, because there are also some showing that portion of the fenders and hulls (the horizontal surfaces) were zimmerited. Thanks!
avukich
Joined: April 11, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 08:02 PM UTC
I think that the general rule of thumb for where the Germans applied zimmerit is any vertical surface that can be reached by a grown man standing on the ground (this is why the zimmerit on the Porsche Jagdtiger and the Elefant only goes halfway up the side). There were some horizontal surfaces that they applied it to such as the front and rear fenders, but for the most part they only applied it to vertical surfaces. Case in point, the StuG IV (and any other Panzer IV based vehicle) has zimmerit on the sides, front, back, front and rear fenders, but not on the fenders along the sides of the vehicle.
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