Armor/AFV
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
For discussions on tanks, artillery, jeeps, etc.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Mario Matijasic
tanks and flat paint
godfather
Joined: June 26, 2002
KitMaker: 817 posts
Armorama: 465 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 04:10 PM UTC
Do you guys feel that tanks should be modelled in flat colours or should they have a sheen? Greenland in his book "modelling panzers" belives that they should be a bit of a sheen to look more metallic. Interested in hearing what you guys have to say.
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 04:37 PM UTC
I do flat all the time, but I totally can see why it should have a little sheen, but can never pull it off, it come out like a Porsche just being waxed. So I stick with flat, and besides I like my tank to be heavily weathered... 
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:15 PM UTC
I use the flat paints for all with a flat coat overcoat to boot. Getting the sheen is sometimes difficult for me to produce without having it look like what Dave said - "a freshly waxed car."
I have been able to get some interesting results by "finger rubbing" the edges and some of the panels and turret sides after the final coat has been applied and dried. So far just experimental for me.
I have been able to get some interesting results by "finger rubbing" the edges and some of the panels and turret sides after the final coat has been applied and dried. So far just experimental for me.
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:22 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I use the flat paints for all with a flat coat overcoat to boot. Getting the sheen is sometimes difficult for me to produce without having it look like what Dave said - "a freshly waxed car."
I have been able to get some interesting results by "finger rubbing" the edges and some of the panels and turret sides after the final coat has been applied and dried. So far just experimental for me.
Hi Ken, could you share with us more about finger rubbing.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:37 PM UTC
Sure thing. I'm sure some will think I'm nuts...but than again...
After all the paint coats, washes, overcoat of flat too, (before patels) has been apllied and allowed to dry a couple of days, I use my finger tips to gently rub panels, hard edges, engine deck, turret sides, etc... . Using your own natural skin oils and very gently rubbing you'll see the slight sheen appear on the model.
After all the paint coats, washes, overcoat of flat too, (before patels) has been apllied and allowed to dry a couple of days, I use my finger tips to gently rub panels, hard edges, engine deck, turret sides, etc... . Using your own natural skin oils and very gently rubbing you'll see the slight sheen appear on the model.
SS-74
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 05:46 PM UTC
Wow, sounds interesting, I sure will give it a try! I know this skin oil must have some use!!
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 06:36 PM UTC
Modern armor, with the CARC paint, is very flat and does have a rough appearance in full scale.
Envar
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 - 07:06 PM UTC
I used to "weather" my early aircraft models using the fingertip method.
It works beautifully on flat enamel, clear or paint, and looks quite neat! It also charges the model with static electricity so in a day or two your model may look like your neighborīs dog.
I had also interesting results with Humbrol matt coat I didnīt mix properly. It sheened a bit, but not too much and I put it over matt surface with a quite dry brush, so the coat didnīt cover everything! It looked worn and interesting. I may give it a new try now that Iīve learned so much since then...
Toni
It works beautifully on flat enamel, clear or paint, and looks quite neat! It also charges the model with static electricity so in a day or two your model may look like your neighborīs dog.
I had also interesting results with Humbrol matt coat I didnīt mix properly. It sheened a bit, but not too much and I put it over matt surface with a quite dry brush, so the coat didnīt cover everything! It looked worn and interesting. I may give it a new try now that Iīve learned so much since then...
Toni
drewgimpy
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 835 posts
Armorama: 388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 - 10:31 AM UTC
I tried to get that look on my first tank by using oil paints on top of flat (acrylic), then washing with a very thin wash of a flat dirt (enamel) color over that. I think it turned out O.K. Check it out here
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?set_albumName=albup02&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
When I do modern armor I wouldn't try to get that shine. From what I have seen I agree with Sabot, they don't shine. I would still use oils just hit it with a flat coat over it.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/modules.php?set_albumName=albup02&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
When I do modern armor I wouldn't try to get that shine. From what I have seen I agree with Sabot, they don't shine. I would still use oils just hit it with a flat coat over it.
ARMDCAV
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 08:07 AM UTC
Finger rubbing is a good way to do it. I use a buffing wheel in my dremel. Not only can you bring out a little sheen on wear areas it is also a great way to get decals to lay down tight on flat paint without using a gloss coat. I like to buff up the skirts on M113's, gives them just the right sheen to look realistic.
cfbush2000
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 1,796 posts
Armorama: 1,207 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 11:51 AM UTC
I bought a silver pencil ata craft store. I lightly rub it over hard edges and other areas, using the side and not the point. Then I do the finger rubbing thing. I just started doing this on the model I working on,and it looks OK I think. 
ponysoldier
Joined: March 13, 2002
KitMaker: 223 posts
Armorama: 110 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 03:59 PM UTC
If I remember correctly even through the 70s most vechile soft skinned of any of the tracks
that I know of ,were a no sheen flat . Areas that were subject to wear such as mounting
or dismounting the vechile,loading ammo supplies were not so much shiny, I"d call
it a discoloration of the orginal color. We didnt start on the new style camo patterns
or colors until about 76 those had a very flat coat rough looking they weathered
normally lighter in color or in high heat areas might take on a redish tint.
pony soldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
that I know of ,were a no sheen flat . Areas that were subject to wear such as mounting
or dismounting the vechile,loading ammo supplies were not so much shiny, I"d call
it a discoloration of the orginal color. We didnt start on the new style camo patterns
or colors until about 76 those had a very flat coat rough looking they weathered
normally lighter in color or in high heat areas might take on a redish tint.
pony soldier
The Horse The Gun The Man
Tanks46
Joined: June 02, 2002
KitMaker: 113 posts
Armorama: 98 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 10:51 PM UTC
I also just use flats. I utilize washing, drybrushing and weathering as appropriate. Any vehicle I have ever seen and taken pictures of in combat mode was flat. However some tanks in parades are repainted and given a sheen either through the color itself or I would assume waxing by the crew. We use to wax the hull and bridge on CG patrol boats for inspections or order special gloss paint (not by spec) so I would say that in inspections you probably had the same to some degree with the tankers particularly in the states. I have pictures and references of vehicles with sheens. Tanks46. 
Der Sonntag Bund
Der Sonntag Bund
Quoted Text
"One who is confused in purpose cannot respond to his enemy."
sniper
Joined: May 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,065 posts
Armorama: 508 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:00 PM UTC
I think using a flat final coat is also part of the scale issue.
To me, the flat finish just looks more realistic on a small model. It gives it some weight.
Also, if you look at Greenlands Panzers they aren't very weathered. They look like tanks that haven't been in the field very long. (Boy, are his models awesome though!) I think the gloss on these might be more appropriate than the very weathered veterans I like to depict.
Steve
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:05 PM UTC
Very nice Sherman Andrew! And I think you're right, you did get a nice 'sheen' to it. I've seen WWII armour on static display and it does have a sheen to it. But I wonder if that's original, or for show.
I have also used the buffing wheel, but on my AC models. Never tried using it on decals though. Afraid I'd tear 'em. I'll have to try that. Except, I lean more towards dry transfers.
Tread.
Quoted Text
Finger rubbing is a good way to do it. I use a buffing wheel in my dremel. Not only can you bring out a little sheen on wear areas it is also a great way to get decals to lay down tight on flat paint without using a gloss coat. I like to buff up the skirts on M113's, gives them just the right sheen to look realistic.
I have also used the buffing wheel, but on my AC models. Never tried using it on decals though. Afraid I'd tear 'em. I'll have to try that. Except, I lean more towards dry transfers.
Tread.
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Saturday, August 31, 2002 - 11:44 PM UTC
Tread, I think he's refering to "buffing" the paint before he places the decal down - to get the surface smooth...as opposed to using something like Future.
I do like the idea of using the Dremil's buffer. I'll have to give it a whirl.
I do like the idea of using the Dremil's buffer. I'll have to give it a whirl.
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 01:00 AM UTC
Doph!..... #:-)
No, wait a minute. The above response, by itself, would be a frivilous post now wouldn't it? I should have instead, written a lengthy and 'meaty' syllogism about the original reasoning for my need to use the phrase, "Doph!", and allow my response to touch on the association that that word has with the TV series 'The Simpson's'. Further supporting my verbal justification by at least mentioning the words; 'model', 'kit', 'plastic', 'sprue', or some combination thereof.
............but I won't.
Tread.
No, wait a minute. The above response, by itself, would be a frivilous post now wouldn't it? I should have instead, written a lengthy and 'meaty' syllogism about the original reasoning for my need to use the phrase, "Doph!", and allow my response to touch on the association that that word has with the TV series 'The Simpson's'. Further supporting my verbal justification by at least mentioning the words; 'model', 'kit', 'plastic', 'sprue', or some combination thereof.
............but I won't.
Tread.
sniper
Joined: May 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,065 posts
Armorama: 508 posts
Posted: Sunday, September 01, 2002 - 09:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Doph!..... #:-)
Tread,
Do you mean "D'oh!"
I think I'd like this written on my tombstone! Just "D'oh!"Steve
BlueBear
Joined: August 26, 2002
KitMaker: 414 posts
Armorama: 148 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 - 05:58 AM UTC
All of the tanks and AFV's that I've seen have had a flat finish---mostly cast texture armor. The vehicles of the 198th Armored Cav Brigade, Idaho National Guard out at Gowen Field south of Boise are painted in about a 50/50 mix of the current NATO camouflage and desert sand. Even though they are supposed to be semi-gloss, the Abrams and other vehicles have a flat finish when I drive past them 100 feet away on Gowen Road.
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