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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Abrams kits
webfoots
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California, United States
Joined: July 21, 2003
KitMaker: 94 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:31 PM UTC
Has anybody built the Esci or ERTL/AMT Abrams? How would you rate them?
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:36 PM UTC
Deciode for yourself. Here is a side by side review of the diferent MA11 kits out there by frequent contributer Vodnik.
M1A1 kit comparison.

Basically, the old AMT/Ertl kit was pretty bad. Not even considered in the above comparison.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:42 PM UTC
The Esci/AMT/Ertl Abrams was bad when the only other Abrams kit on the market was the original Tamiya M1. Today it is little more than a forgettable footnote in the list of Abrams models ever made.

Strangely, their 1/72 scale M1 was really nice. Both their 1/35 and 1/72 scale M1A1s were truly bad though.
webfoots
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California, United States
Joined: July 21, 2003
KitMaker: 94 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:43 PM UTC
I have read Vodnik's great comparison article.

Are either one of these kits reboxes of another kit or originals?

Sabot: thanks, it looks like I'll pass on these unless I want to go small scale...
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 04:57 PM UTC
I've built both the M1 and M1A1. The one thing they had was the first link & length tracks available in a kit. Real neat.

Esci did the original kit, AMT/Ertl reboxed them for distribution in the US. Same kit down to the decals.
webfoots
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California, United States
Joined: July 21, 2003
KitMaker: 94 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 05:06 PM UTC
I doubt the track links would be worth buying the whole kit, even if they come cheap on ebay.

I have enough Abrams kits being built and stashed anyway...

Thanks again for the info.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
Armorama: 3,938 posts
Posted: Thursday, December 09, 2004 - 08:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Are either one of these kits reboxes of another kit or originals?


In my article I wrote about Revell of Germany M1A1 kit, which was a rebox of Dragon (DML) kit. All other kits were originals, although Italeri M1A2 molds were partially based on Trumpeter ones. It was greatly improved however.
Revell of Germany also sell M1A2 kit, which is a rebox of Italeri model. In other words RoG Abramses are reboxes, all other are originals.

Pawel
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Friday, December 10, 2004 - 02:09 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I doubt the track links would be worth buying the whole kit, even if they come cheap on ebay.

I have enough Abrams kits being built and stashed anyway...

Thanks again for the info.
You are correct, they are not worth buying just for the tracks unless you really need the early style T-156 tracks.

The Esci/AMT/Ertl link & length T-156 tracks are inaccurate though. To be fair, the Tamiya original M1 and the Desert Storm M1A1 and M1A1 with mine plow both had the same track error as the Esci kit.

Both Tamiya and Esci molded the center guides (guide teeth) centered on a single track block instead of straddling two adjacent blocks. With the Esci styrene link & length tracks, this could be fixed by cutting them and relocating them. Possible, but tedious.

Armour Track Models makes a pretty nice set of the early style T-156 tracks if you really need the early style.
nfafan
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Alabama, United States
Joined: August 01, 2003
KitMaker: 335 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Friday, December 10, 2004 - 06:29 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Are either one of these kits reboxes of another kit or originals?


In my article I wrote about Revell of Germany M1A1 kit, which was a rebox of Dragon (DML) kit. All other kits were originals, although Italeri M1A2 molds were partially based on Trumpeter ones. It was greatly improved however.
Revell of Germany also sell M1A2 kit, which is a rebox of Italeri model. In other words RoG Abramses are reboxes, all other are originals.

Pawel


An addition; the Hobbycraft OIF kits - Abrams included - are re-boxed Trumpeter kits. IMHO, a good value for the $10.00USD for a Trump Abrams.
Cookie
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 21, 2003
KitMaker: 588 posts
Armorama: 490 posts
Posted: Saturday, December 11, 2004 - 10:48 PM UTC
I have built the Dragon M1A1 with mine clearing plough, Great kit and still a resonable price. I have heard that Dragon are releasing a new retooled M1A2 in the new year. Anyone got anything on this

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junglejim
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: February 18, 2003
KitMaker: 1,728 posts
Armorama: 1,629 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 05:23 AM UTC
Dragon's rumoured new kits will be the Panther II Engineer vehicle (mine roller/rake) followed by an M1A1 AIM. No word on an M1A2 from them.

Cheers,
Jim
Cookie
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Northern Ireland, United Kingdom
Joined: September 21, 2003
KitMaker: 588 posts
Armorama: 490 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:19 AM UTC
Jim

Your are right Jim, it was an M1A1 AIM. Any idea when we will see it, i had heard the new year but nothing on Dragons Web page as yet.

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lavgnr
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Alberta, Canada
Joined: November 03, 2003
KitMaker: 338 posts
Armorama: 216 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 12, 2004 - 10:45 AM UTC
Glad that this topic came up, I've got the ESCI/ERTL A1 on my shelf. Maybe I'll just give it to a younger relative, and get one of the more accurate ones..
Jacques
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Minnesota, United States
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Monday, December 13, 2004 - 04:15 AM UTC
Scuttlebutt is that DML was going to release the Panther II and the AIM in 2004 but that they went back to rework the moldings one last time to make sure they made improvements.

As I have been told, they want to have the definative M1 series out on the market once the tooling dust settles.

Personally, if only half of what has been discussed is true, it should be good for us abrams builders!
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