Hi Guys,

I'm in the process of completing my shelved DML Panzer IV Ausf. G (Kursk 1943) and I need some inputs on what's the best camo color for units operating in the kursk area in 1943 (not winter)...

BTW, below are some pics of the P4 with and w/o the side skirts...which I scratchbuilt because I don't like the one that came with the kit...







Thanks

Well there isn't something like "the best camo" in this case I think, as there were lot's of different camouflage schemes. Here are some examples:











As you can see, mostly images of pzfkw III, sorry for that, but you can assume they used the same camo as their big pzkfw 4 brother

Nice job on you panzer btw!

Martin thanks for the pics they are a big help... .

I'm just curious, did the Germans use panzer gray camo stripes over dark yellow as depicted on the DML box art for the kit?

Cheers

Hi

There are camo schemes with german grey and dark yellow. These are dark yellow patches over a german grey base. I've got this information from this book, and you can see an example of this style camo on the front of the book (the halftrack)



These were used in the summer of 1943, so this could be kursk. However I've never seen any pic of a german tank with this type scheme, only halftracks and softskins. So I'd stick to one of the schemes I've showed you before!

Make sure to show us pics of your panzer once it's finished!

Grt

Hi Martin,

You definitely have been a big help...I will definitely post pics of my Pz4 once finished because you guys are the best critics w/c helps me improve my skills...


Thanks

Well, if your painting skills are as good as your building skills, I'm sure we'll get to see something special!

Good luck with your paintjob!

Martin

http://bsdi.usppp.com/wwiiscalemodels/schemes/panzertarnung.html
http://klub.chip.pl/krzemek/galeria.htm

Arvin- Just to add to Martinnnn's excellent advice, there are a few more such Ideas on these two sites.
HTH
RobH

[EDIT] BTW- your build is fantastic! I especially like the scratched schurzen. Many modellers overdo the damage on these IMHO, but yours look great, very restrained, and the texture looks like rolled sheet metal. excellent work!

Hi Warthog,

Good looking model!

No references at hand but IIRC, Kursk was right after the official switch to overall dark yellow.

New vehicles like Panther (baptism of fire) and the Tigers (less than a year in action) were coming from the factory in ochre. New Mk IVs like the H and J were probably ochre, too. Older vehicles could be any of the transition schemes.

My favorite is the gray/green/yellow, prominent on SS Mk IIIs in several Kursk photos. In late '42 OKW decreed that gray vehilces be given 1/3 coverage of dark green. Then about the new year they appended the camoflauge to 2/3 Panzer Yellow/Dunkel Gelb/dark yellow/ochre--whatever you wanna call it.

How many Tigers, StuGs and Mk IVs wore this I can't say. But I think it is a good looking scheme compared to the more prevailant, beloved overall yellow, with browns and greens.

Otherwise, seems the photos I've seen of late-model Mk IVs in Zitadel were yellow with green mottleing.

Hi Robert,

Nice links, particularly the first one... .

As for the schuerzen, I used a thin (probably gauge 16 or 18) of galvanized sheet. I just applied putty on both sides to simulate rolled steel....

BTW, do you guys think could use the same camo I did for my TIGER-I (its supposed to be S.Pz.Abt. 502 in Russia summer 1943) ?
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/forums/41187&page=1

Fred, I would also like to do your camo suggestion to give more variation, but I usually build kits as much as possible near the real thing...I wish I could find a pic of a Panzer IV ausf.G using the camo scheme you mentioned..




Cheers

You could, that's almost excactly the scheme one of my reference books shows on a Kursk tiger.....

However, I'd prefer the scheme of the famous S33, see my first post. But that's just my own taste.

Btw, the Tiger on the cover of my book is one at Kursk as well. You can see barbed wire at the sides of the tank, which was mentioned to discourage soviet infantry to board the tank. I'll use the barbed-wire story on my own Tiger as well, I like these kind of details (and I wanted to share them with you guys )

Grt

Hey warthog! I was thinking of getting the same kit. What do you say about the tracks? Are they a pain to work with? How's the fit especially the tracks?

Hey Ralph,

the DML pz IV G is quite a good kit in my opinion, the track links are quite good too and they fit into each other nicely.

Danny is correct with regards the tracks. I was able to assemble them in approx. 3 hrs (with some rest included).

The problem I had was with the following:
1) Upper and lower hull fit --not exact, you have to sand some parts off...but I was able to glue them...
2) Some parts do not fit properly, but they can be fixed...(minor)
3) Although it's an Ausf.G the commander coupola provided is still the split hatched...

The tracks would be the least of your problems because there are soooooooo many small parts...w/c sometimes can be frustrating....the Tiger-I build was a breeze compared to this...

Martin, I still have 4 more Tiger-I kits, I also like those with the barbed wire look...quite unique.....hmmm let me think about it....oh, I forgot I also have that book by concorde...

Thanks and cheers

For a MK IV you can't go wrong with plain old Dunklegelb with rotbraun stripes, I have just recently gotton ahold of Osprey's "Kursk" book and there is one colour plate and several B&W shots of this camo scheme. The Rotbraun could also be done in spots or "octopus" patterns.

Hi, you sure gave me a simpler solution...thanks.
Does your reference have any specific battalion or group mentioned...I need info regarding the ff:
1) Battalion
2) Tank number
3) Camo style

I have any links or pics of a panzer iv that I could base on that would be great...

Thanks

The only MK IV shot I can find that says what unit the tank is from is a shot of a MK IVH from the II SS Panzer Corps- 3rd Panzer Div.:"Totenkopf ". No lower level designation is given. One thing to note, at Kursk the "Totenkopf" unit marking is a simple Roman numeral III instead of the more well known skull. Another shot shows a MK IVG from the same division with the numbers 112 on the turret. I know this ain't much info but I hope it helps.

Joseph,
The info you gave is very much useful especially about tank 112....its a very big help....ummm BTW, was the turret number painted in solid or stencil type and waht camo style was used (for tank 112)? Sorry for asking too many questions....

Patrick, can't see what you attached....is it a picture...

Thanks guys

Arvin,
From what I can tell the camo pattern appears to be a two-color spot pattern. The numbers are two-color (red and white?) stencils. Do the numbers mean 1st Tank-1st company-2nd battalion?