It seems I have to bring this up occasionally as we get new members and sometimes us old timers (ha!) also drift back into complacency.

TOPICS. Where do they go? First let me make a point about Off Topic posts. Please put anything that is NOT modeling related into the group of forums listed below the modeling forums. See the Forums Homepage for the layout. This means if you have a general topic about (for example) a fellow user reaching the prestigious rank of Major, then it should go into either this forum (Site Talk) or the Junk Drawer. Speaking of the Junk Drawer I see some users who seem to avoid posting there. If the term "Junk" is putting people off then I can certainly change it to something more friendly sounding. My original thought for this was the old drawer in our kitchen that seemed to gather all sorts of homeless items. So I wasn't meaning to impugn a topic and infer that the message was "junk".

Secondly, lets try to keep the modeling forums On-Topic. I certainly think that the majority of users love to have a laugh and witty exchanges (I am one of these), but let's try to remember that what people are generally looking for in the modeling forums is "information", not entertainment. You can entertain, but be informative if you can also. Much of the future success of this site depends on it being a resource for model makers to use to help with their work. To be clear though, there will be no deleting of humor/joke posts here. This site will not stoop to the level of some others and start enforcing a level of authority that squashes out fun and creativity.

This said the other non-modeling forums are open for community building and relaxing banter. Just keep it clean and remember we are frequented by the kiddies.

If you have any comments or feedback on this post please feel free to share your thoughts.

Sincerely,
Jim

Right on the point Jim, please forgive us if we fall in sin

I agree with you Jim. We can be professional and have fun at the same time. Having said that, I apologize for my last post, which was a little off topic

(Webmaster makes sneaky insertion: But it wasn't in the Modeling Forums!)

Nic

Jim,

Words that make sense ! Like you said: We need a reminder sometimes.

Thanks for the reminder Jim. One other thing I would like to see is a cutback on is posting for the sake of posting. If someone has something to say by all means say it. It seems to me that often fluff is posted just to raise rank though. If you have something that is funny we all like a good joke, but there are some attempts at hummor that appear to be for rank. I don't want any rule changes I just don't want us to not fill the boards with junk to put it plainly.

Is this a huge problem, no. Does it make the site look a little nonsensical and trivial, if you ask me yes at times. We also need to ask is this activity going to attract the people we want to the site or turn them away? To repeat something I said in a more private discussion "if we love the site as much as we profess, lets not fill it with garbage".

I am not saying lets not tell jokes or not say something that doesn't follow the thread topic to a fanatical point. I know some are thinking "this is the stuff that makes the site great". Please understand that the good jokes and friendliness I also love is not the target. If you think about it and go through some old post I think you will find what I am talking about. What I am saying is lets not chase rank to the point that others are turned away by having to weed through posts looking for the meat of the subject. I can't see how this could take away from the friendly fun nature of the site. The best way to solve it in my opinion is to follow Jims guidance to put stuff where it goes. I like the friendly personal threads but not in the general modeling forum mixed in the middle of a serious topics. Again not a huge deal, but no reason for it either.

The rank system is a feature we all like but to me it gets cheapened when people inflate it. Everyone here is capable of discussing more than one topic or quote in a sinlge post. Its just cheap to post 3 times in a row in the same thread to discuss 3 quotes or subjects when it can be done in one. what I think when I see stuff like that or the fluff I mentioned earlier is that the person is just cluttering up the site to gain rank and get ahead of everyone else artificially. Sorry to brake the nice rule, but there are other things I like about the site that suffer from this. Do they suffer that much, no. But at the same time is there a good reason for this to go on, not that I know of.

I know I am going against some people that are a whole lot more popular on the site than me, but I want the site to be the best it can even if I get a bad label by expressing my feelings. Lets be friendly, nice, have fun just like we always do. Lest also post things where they belong and take out the trash.

Andrew,
You raise an interesting point there. Rank promotion is one of the strong points of this site, buy it has some backdraws.


I'm sure we can all make an effort to avoid needless replies, useless comments and repetition of the same things five other people replied already to the same post, just to gain rank.
No matter how we behave, in a year or so most of us "old timers" will be Generals anyway.

Then what ? Jim will have to think of a set of precious medals and ribbons.
Maybe we can think up a set of those. Here's one already : bring a monthly medal to users who limit themselves to posting on-topic replies, avoid spamming and avoid rank-driven entries. (On-topic member)
I look forward to seeing a list of medals. THAT will be a lot more appealing to all of us soon-to-be generals than getting that next rank promotion a week or a month sooner or later. At the same time, such medals system helps to apply the rules of conduct (if those exist) and it complies with the general ideas of promotion, military flavor, etc...

My 2 Eurocts.

Janneman

I must say that when there is a feature article or some pictures I´ve posted myself to get comments I like having as many comments as possible. For me it´s about getting personal feedback and getting to know single users better.
That´s why I sometimes want to throw in a plain "Good job, keep them coming!" -comment so that the person recognizes me and that (s)he may know me and my interests better.
This has led to several more personal contacts considering single projects, chat, PMs and so on.

Toni (not-becoming-General-soon)

I sense a lot of negative vibes here .....

Oooohh man....another step up the promotion ladder....yeaaaah

Jim, can you please put me back to the level of permanent Base Visitor ?, This way I don't have to feel guilty

If people think we reply just for promo....well that's fine with me. Sure there are people who do such things, but how many....1, 2, 3...10 ?? Let's not make a big deal out of it.

Nope, I hope good old Jimbo will put me back to the good old Base Visitorship. I'm serious on this Jim. It saves me time on reading and thinking about these posts.

I have to agree whit Toni.

If I put up a post about a model or dio I am building then I hope to get all the responses there is, mainly for my mental state ( ) So that I feel good about something I did.

I think the same is for others, does this mean that if, lets say 4 people already said "good job" to someone’s work, that I can't reply because it is promotion hunting? Sorry no, if I like something I will respond to it, even if it is only 1 word.

"If people think we reply just for promo....well that's fine with me. Sure there are people who do such things, but how many....1, 2, 3...10 ?? Let's not make a big deal out of it."

You are right, there will be some out there that are looking for a "title", let them they don't mean much to this site anyway.

This site is great because of its members, the forums and the ideas and techniques you learn here, don't let it be taken over by to many don't-do-rules

Only my 2 eurocents

#:-)

Danny,
Sorry old boy, but your stuck with your rank as it stands. We are moving forward men. Charge!

Seriously don't blow a fuse with this topic. As I am the horses mouth, (the one in charge) please refer back to my original comment. And remember running a site this large is a little like running a small country. Not everyone is going to agree on what's right or best. Let's all just try to compromise and do what's good for the group.

Thanks,
Jim

Toni, Danny, Ronny,
I hope you don't take my remark personally. You know it's not meant to be. I feel how sensitive this issue is, and I have mixed feelings about off-topic posting myself. There's good and bad in this promotion system (like with all interesting things in life).
I only wanted to state my opinion. The ranking certainly DOES influence users' posting behaviour (I have no shame in admitting it influences me at times). It is also clear that many posts do not improve the "scale modeling value" of this site. On the other hand, a bit of fun and the cameraderie makes this site all the more attractive, and is my major incentive to keep coming back here, day after day (even while my modeling project is beckoning to get my attention).
I hope you do not mind me stating this opinion. Ninety percent of "rank induced posts" remain interesting and fun, but there's that ten percent that gets on my nerve. I do not wish to blame anyone for that : I'm not above anyone elses behaviour when it comes to frolicking around on this site. Still, I think that just a tiny more discipline from each of us can make this an even more interesing site.
And don't worry, I still love you all as much as before.

Have a great weekend,

Janneman

Jim,

I guess you're right. Although there might be some truth in my "PERMANENT Base Visitor" 'cause that;s what we are.....visitors who are permanently online and......you're to blame #:-)

Jan,

It's not your post that has upset me. I actually liked the idea you posted.

As for my final words on this topic: "I'm with Toni and Ronny here. When a guy used to post a message on his promotion or on a finished model, I used to comment that with a lot of yada yada...once seriously and other times with a wink.

Nowadays, since I ran out of creative words, it's only a congrats and just a few words on the subject" People tend to see that as careerhunting, but it's just a posibility to spend more time on things that are more modeling-related.

Reading the above, you could say "Man...he feels guilty", and I DO. Not because I AM a careerhunter, but because I might just look like one..... and that is in the back of the head each time you think of replying to a post....

Maybe a forum-moderator can advise a "careerhunter" to do things different if he posts, let's say, 5 replies in a row on one post.

Jim,

I know that we have got to have some rules on this, and I fully accept and understand that. It's not your original comment nor the reply from Jan that made me go wild. Your comments where positive and looking forward and that's what I like and therefore accept and understand. It is just the negative vibes I read in Andrews comments. I don't say that he IS writing negative about this toppic, I just READ it this way. Maybe it's just me......when we have a "problem", let's look for solutions and let's stay away from describing everything that's NOT good again.... it tends to approach things in a negative way.

Having said this, I'm ok again, but I'll think twice before replying with a simple congrats again. Sorry but that's just that little voice inside my head, and if that was somebodies idea behind it......his mission...... is accomplished.

Hmmm. What to say, what to say. Put simply, (read) politely. I agree with my good friend Eagle on this topic. I too would like to be 'busted', (heck, it happened in real life for not following silly rules, why not?) In fact, instead of that, just 'promote' me to base JANITOR, O.K.? You can take awamy stars and issue me a broom handle symbol or something, whadaya think?
Because, I don't intend to make changes in the way I visit this site. What time I do spend on the site is entirely for the friendly atmoshere and the virtual 'comaraderie' of the membership. Rank? Please.
If this 'rank' thing is so important to some, please give mine to them.
If I wanted a 'dry and lifeless' modeling experience I'd go over to ML.

On that note,

........" Know this day, from the mouth of our allmighty God, come these 15 Commandment's.........oops, Crash!.................these, ....10 Commandment's".................

Tread.

I see a lot of people post just to gain rank. As the one person on this site with the most post (I think), I hope no one thinks I post to gain rank. I just have a lot to say, a lot of input (most of it good I hope), and a lot of model, military and hardware related information stuck in my head. I tend to avoid posting just to post, like the welcome to new members (I will welcome them if I have something to add to their post), or the promotion congrats. I thnk my only "fluff" post just to post was the infamous "Post Just Because/666" post.

It is possible to get rank by only posting relevant replies and valied questions. I'm proof of that.

That you are, Rob. One thing I have to say is how surprised I have been at the number of questions I can actually reply to with something knowledgable. Plus, I can always ask a question myself if I have one. I admit I have been guilty of a few fluffs myself (but not very many in my opinion), but I decided to stop that even before this thread started, because fluffing is usually just embarrassing (in more than one sense of the word, I suppose ).




Thanks, Jim. I feel better now

Nic

This thread is bringing me down - and I stand with Tread and Danny.

I've been here a long time too - and I have felt in the past the same accusations that Andrew brought up from other members as well.

I couldn't care less about a Rank if that means that someone out there is sulking and thinking that I'm just posting to get another point. I make a variety of posts - some informative, some to answer questions, a few to ask questions, and some in a jovial manner. I won't stand there and say that every post I make is relevant - that's banal in the grand scheme of things - but that's not why I joined the Forum. I've got plenty of opportunities for erecting soapboxes.

You can remove my "rank" too. I'm just a happy modeler and want to share with other modelers...

Gunnie

Gunnie,
No one could ask for more. I don't think you should feel "targeted" by this topic. Nor should any one person.

All,
My original remarks were more along the lines of "trying" to keep posts on-topic and placing them in the area they belong. There will be no consequences for not "trying", but I would appriciate it if everyone would at least give this some thought. I don't want this site to become a sterile land of obscure tank designations and people debating on how many millimeters the frontal armor was on a PanzerIVJ was. I like the forums the way they are for the most part (I still want to implement some kind of sub-groups system though).

That said I wish everyone would not take this topic so personally. We are ALL guilty of an occasional silly space filling remark now and then. Is this a capital crime? No. In fact there isn't a single person on this board that I don't enjoy reading remarks from. I enjoy it so much in fact that I want more, more, more! So.... instead of replying to this post with one sentence like "I agree", tell us more. Tell us "why" you agree. I hope this example was understood by all.

Cheers,
Jim

Maybe we're making this look like a bigger problem than it really is.

Now THIS would be a great moment to all sit together and have a drink : we just have a heated discussion behind us, it's Friday evening, job's done and sun is shining. I heard they've opened a new little café just near the airport here with a nice garden terrace. They serve cool Belgian draft beer and mix a mean Margerita. Rumour has it there's lots of flight attendants passing by on the way home in the evening.... (not that I'm interested - I'm a happily married man ).

I know this cannot be considered an on-topic post, but I hope it can put some oil on the waves. I know I'm one of those who rocked the boat a bit here... sorry for that. To make up, I'll have a drink on each of you.

OK, gang. I've got a dry throat and places to go now ! Cya !

Jan,
What? Cool Beer? The Brits and Germans must think Belgium insane! hehe

Sounds good though. Make mine a tall glass.

Jim

Life without a little bit of insanity #:-) is BORING!!!!!!!!!!

Matt

I agree with Gunnie because recently we sent a couple PM's back and forth that if for some strange reason I wanted to increase my number of posts, would have just created a topic for. Actually, good idea, I sould create a new topic because I think its an interesting subject!

But, I do think it's too bad when a thread get's 'hijacked.' It starts as a serious discussion or appeal for advise and it turns into a running joke or personal war ( hey, where's sgtreef!? :-) Just kidding friend, we did have a good one going there for a bit!).

That may be when it's time to start a new thread in Junk Drawer for the joke, etc. I know when I start a thread to either ask a question of bring up a point, I hope to get answers or some new perspectives. But, you never know what way something is going to go and that's part of the fun. Let's be honest, the anonymity of the Internet allows us to say things we probably wouldn't in public. I'm sure our face-to-face conversations would be much different.

But, I don't think there should be anything (as long as it is in reasonable good taste and is not stupidly political) that is off-limits. As Jim mentioned, there are other 'sites' (that will remain unmentioned) that are very strict and I don't even want to be part of them.

Hey, guess what, I just added another post by responding! 202 baby!!!!

Steve

Sorry I started such a firestorm here. My experience in life has led me to believe that beating around the bush doesn't get much done, maybe I am wrong about that, I still have a lot to learn.

Personaly I think deep down we all want the same thing. A friendly, fun, site with some great modeling content. None of this is a big deal, just a little irritating at times.

On the "Great job" posts. Thats not my target. But on that topic can't we add a little meat? There is obviously something you like about the model if your being honest, just jot that down. How about "Great Job, I really like the way the tracks turned out. The way they are put on really brings it to life." Personaly if I got 15 replies that said only "Great job" it wouldn't help me at all. I have a wife that does that, I want to know what I did right and what I could do better. And if you where a first time visitor to the site would 15 "great jobs" in a row encourage you to stay? Maybe so. That is a concern of mine. Right now we have 10 registered users on line and 39 visitors. I would like to see that # reversed. Do I think people are leaving or staying away in droves because of this? No, maybe even none but lets give them the best look at the site we can.

We are all talking about a very little thing, but it is a bit of a problem or this discussion wouldn't be going on.

I don't want anyone giving up rank or being busted. The situation is not bad enough to warrant this in my opinion. I haven't heard a single person say "I never do this". On the conctrary most of us, and I will include myself, say "ya, I have done a little of this to". Each person doing a little adds up and thats what we are talking about now. If each of us just cuts out little of this the problem goes away. I think thats what those on the "lets cut this out" side of the argument are saying and where not excusing ourselves.

I want to say something to Sabot and Gunnie. I personaly don't think either of you are abusing this. You two are the main reason I come to the site becasue I can get any information I need between you guys (and yes an good joke ever so often). If either of you where to leave I wouldn't leave armorama but I would also start to us the site you went to, your advice means that much to me. If I have offended you or anyone for that matter I am sorry.

No offense taken by me. The conversation was a good break between finishing stowage for my M4 Sherman...

Gunnie

Thank you matt!!! :-)

When I first joined the site there was one rule about posting... as far as I can figure, that rule still stands supreme.


Have fun... This site is excells at that. Every time I visit the site, I cannot help but chuckle at the antics of some of the members. Matt's quote above is a fine example. Anyone remeber the 'Dental Care' forum? Classic stuff!
One thing I remember fondly is "The Battle of the Sig Lines"... Playoff hockey. A bunch of guys put a supporting message to thier favorite haockey team at the end of the post, but the post itself was about something completely different. That, to me, is a big reason why the site is so much fun to people; the mix of personalities...
As for the 'post to gain rank' problem. I haven't noticed a ton of it going on. Every once and a while I see it, but not too much. Did I ever do it? Yeah! Did I gain anything? Nope. After I was in the 'post just to post' phase, I looked back at some of the topics, and some of the pointless replies I had posted. After that, I realised that the fun isn't in getting promoted. The fun is in interacting with the fellow members of ArmoramA.
I don't need to worry about the responsibilties of being a general now that the council has granted me Jedi Knighthood (Jim, that is...)
Since I found the site, I've learned tons about history, armored vehicles and modelbuilding. That is much more than I'd hope when I first stumbled in here looking for a model of a subchser... (thanks again for the millionth time, Rob!)

YodaMan

Well this isn't getting anywhere so I am not going to push it. I thought I raised some valid points about getting sponsors and skilled modelers to the site but nobody was willing to take that on. If modeling is going to take a back seet to everything else I just have to accept it or find something else. Jim has done a great job setting up place for everything you would want to talk about but everything seems to have a junk drawer attitude. If you want the model section to be halfway serious, like it use to be, your just accused of trying to kill everything that great about the site. Just a couple final requests then I will let it go.

1. Those of us that want to have the model section be about models respect everyone else, maybe we could have a little. When someone goes off topic or forces a bad joke to have there fun, they need to understand that this takes some of the enjoyment out of the boards for others. Substantive talk is what some consider fun. Where not asking for much, just the boards that are set up for model discussions to be used that way. I know a bunch of people are thinking I want the fun to die, but I just want to have some myself in my own way. I like good jokes, I just don't like everything to be a joke.

2. We all have different ideas on what is funny and what isn't. If you have something funny to say I want to hear it. But if someone is trying to be funny almost every time they post it is just plain annoying and nobody on earth is that funny. If its in the junk drawer set up stage and go all night, I don't care I can avoid it. But please try not to force things in serious conversations especialy if it has nothing to do with the topic or you have nothing else to add. I am not talking about most cases here, I like humor but its just kinda rude to constantly force your version of it on others when they are having serious conversation.

3. Lastly try and add a little meat where should be. If where talking about books and 10 people like the shep paine book thats great information, it means a lot more than it would if it where one person saying it, thats not what I am talking about.. Just the empty same old thing. Its hard to put a finger on it but I think we can all figure this one out.

Not much to ask I think, just a little respect for the different ideals. I guess now we wait and see if we are as open to everyone as we profess or if its just a farce that a bunch of jokers hide behind to keep from being flamed.