http://www.missing-lynx.com/library/modern/russia/inaction/grozny-86.jpg
You are not telling me it is the tank behind it that fires this thing are you.
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The last time I saw combat rounds in that condition was in Korea in M48's . The rust and or dirt around the lip of the bottom of the casing reminds me of rounds stored in the ready rack. The wear further up looks like scuffing from hold down brackets. and the marks on the projectiles looks like someone had been using them for steps to get in and out of the turret. Laid out on boards like that suggest that the tank may be down and the ammo off loaded while the vehicle is being repaired. Its obvious that its cold where ever he's at. this may be a reserve unit by looking at the civilian jacket that he is using to pickup the round with.
What your seeing is the condition everything is in a combat line unit. Scruffy dosn't mean shoddy or lack of service or maintenance. These rounds are perfectly capable of doing what they are intended to do. You don't repaint ammo. Not in the field. Now is the time for this soldier to clean these rounds, while they're out of the tank. When you have the time and the resources you straighten bent fenders, replace broken lights and guards, clean your pioneer tools, restencel markings and other nonessintial housekeeping chores. Everyday you do the essentials. Whats the norm in a combat line unit would get you gigged state side. The essentials are those things you do to insure that your vehicle is capable of completing your mission. A shovel is a hell of a lot more important than a paint brush and a tanker bar is a sacred object. A tank has to do 3 things to be effective. Shoot, move and comunicate. Not to be confused with the 3 attributes of armor which are fire power, mobility and shock effect. Shoot means your gun is clean, your optics are calbrated and sighted in and your ammo is correct for your mission. Sabot is useless against troops, soft skinned vehicles most of the time unless you hit'm right, and bunkers. HEP will piss off a tanker if you fire one at him but will do the job on most everything else. Wille pete's good for marking rounds and starting fires. Heat rounds are useful for penetrating most armor ,and bunkers if your out of HEP. APR'S or cannisters are good for jungle busting and troops in the open. Move. Means just that. If you cain't move your not a tank. Your a target or a pill box until you become a target. Communicate. Tanks are most effective in force. they are for the most part very vulnerable and must operate as a team to support each other by each one being responsible for an area of fire, no indvidual tank being capable of defending itself from all quadrants. To do this effectivly means that they must be able to talk to each other or the team leader/platoon comander. Yes tanks are vulnerable and there are many ways to disable one. Any good grunt squad knows most of them.
But I degress. Why is that round in the condition you see it and why were the rounds in my old tank not much better looking? Well probably because the crew had a dozen more important things to fix or keep clean and the tank commander, the Platoon leader, the Company commander, the battalion commander and the division commander, oh yes, and the loader were confident that when that round was shoved up the gun tube, it would detonate and send the projectile down range as intended.
Just not worth it to keep yanking them out and cleaning them all the time.
What your seeing is the condition everything is in a combat line unit. Scruffy dosn't mean shoddy or lack of service or maintenance. These rounds are perfectly capable of doing what they are intended to do. You don't repaint ammo. Not in the field. Now is the time for this soldier to clean these rounds, while they're out of the tank. When you have the time and the resources you straighten bent fenders, replace broken lights and guards, clean your pioneer tools, restencel markings and other nonessintial housekeeping chores. Everyday you do the essentials. Whats the norm in a combat line unit would get you gigged state side. The essentials are those things you do to insure that your vehicle is capable of completing your mission. A shovel is a hell of a lot more important than a paint brush and a tanker bar is a sacred object. A tank has to do 3 things to be effective. Shoot, move and comunicate. Not to be confused with the 3 attributes of armor which are fire power, mobility and shock effect. Shoot means your gun is clean, your optics are calbrated and sighted in and your ammo is correct for your mission. Sabot is useless against troops, soft skinned vehicles most of the time unless you hit'm right, and bunkers. HEP will piss off a tanker if you fire one at him but will do the job on most everything else. Wille pete's good for marking rounds and starting fires. Heat rounds are useful for penetrating most armor ,and bunkers if your out of HEP. APR'S or cannisters are good for jungle busting and troops in the open. Move. Means just that. If you cain't move your not a tank. Your a target or a pill box until you become a target. Communicate. Tanks are most effective in force. they are for the most part very vulnerable and must operate as a team to support each other by each one being responsible for an area of fire, no indvidual tank being capable of defending itself from all quadrants. To do this effectivly means that they must be able to talk to each other or the team leader/platoon comander. Yes tanks are vulnerable and there are many ways to disable one. Any good grunt squad knows most of them.
But I degress. Why is that round in the condition you see it and why were the rounds in my old tank not much better looking? Well probably because the crew had a dozen more important things to fix or keep clean and the tank commander, the Platoon leader, the Company commander, the battalion commander and the division commander, oh yes, and the loader were confident that when that round was shoved up the gun tube, it would detonate and send the projectile down range as intended.
Just not worth it to keep yanking them out and cleaning them all the time.
I have to chime in on the side of 210CAV. Having commanded a tank company and a combat support company, there is no excuse for the mud around the base of the rounds. The scratched paint on the round is result of taking rounds in and out of vehicle. Mud on the road wheels, bent fenders, etc., are not issues while manuevering, unless they hamper maintenance and operation of vehicle (you can't service grease fittings on road wheels, if mud is not removed).
The dirt on the round could cause the round to not properly seat in the breech and cause the breech block to jam, a deadly situation in combat. Plus if mud is on base of round, the primer is also most likely dirty, causing round to misfire.
Having been in a T-62 on several occasions, I do not understand how that mud would get there unless the crew stood the rounds in the mud, a guaranteed way to cover the primer on the base of the round!!!!The T-62 has space for only three ready rounds in the turret, there are no rounds in the non-existant turret bustle, as in M60A1/A3, where feet could get mud on rounds.
I believe the rounds in the picture are HE, not HEP. It is Russian practice to fire HE while on the move, to keep enemies head down. The T-62 fire control system is not accurate enough to hit a target while on the move. HEP does not have a fuze on the tip, they are base detonated.
Chime in, please. I have to think back a lot further than you guys do. Your dead on about the HE/HEP by the way. Your comment about the scratches being related to loading and unloading rounds is also valid. This, to me indicates that this unit is in a reserve or support role or possibly a border guard? Clean shiny ammo is usually only found on units in contact on a regular bases or on firing ranges. That crud and the scratches didn't get on there overnight. Go back and look at the picture. You will see that the round base is NOT covered in mud. That black stuff is dirt and grime. One question. Are these rounds percussion or electricaly detonated?
A lot of what has been discussed here, on my part anyway, relates to American equipment, though I can tell you that the normal routines and practices of tank crews in any army are pretty much the same. I can say this because I have served with tankers from other countrys in combat, on firing ranges and in beer halls on 3 continents. Maybe I should start a thread on tanker etiquette. Na, this is a famly channel.![]()
"When your up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember than your original objective was to drain the swap".
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