I know that the M59 dump truck is a 2.5-ton truck, but would it be possible to use the conversion set from Hobby Fan (designed for the AFV Club M35A2) to built a M929/930 5-ton dump truck based on Italeri M923/925 kits ? Both trucks seem to share the same dumper. I also know that MR Models has released a set for the M930 but I've read that its quality was quite poor....

TIA
Frenchy

Hey Frenchy,
I think Gino( HeavyArty0 is in an Engineer battalion. You might want to try andirect your question to him. Or maybe Rob(SABOT) has a dump truck sitting in his motor pool.

As far as the Real Models sets are concerned, I've built their "Expando Van" and "BobTail" conversions and they weren't that bad. Now the flat bed trailer kit for the "BobTail" is still in the closet becuase it needed a lot of cleaning up. Their Bradley engine was nice too.

Thanks for the fast reply Pete ! I have an article from Steelmasters magazine by Jorge Lopez who has built the MR Model M930 conversion set for the Italeri truck (featured on ML gallery). He explains that he had to discard most of the set parts (except the dumper) and scratchbuilt the rest... So I'd prefer the Hobby Fan way...
The Real Models dump truck is based on a M800 series truck (M51) It includes a complete cab that would be useless for my project ....and it's quite pricey (to say the least !)

Frenchy

Ya, its a hit and miss with Real Models. I would go the Hobby Fan way too.

Sorry guys, can't help here. I am in an Artilleryman, not engineer, hence HeavyArty. Don't know anything about the M929/930 5-ton dump trucks. If the dump beds are the same, shouldn't be too difficult to make it work though.

Now if I could see what you were talking about, I might be able to help you, cause a lot of trucks up to a certain tonnage use the same parts outside of the suspension.

Take a big GMC top-kick dump-truck or garbage truck, now they look big standing beside them don't they, but if you were to get into the cab, it has the very same cab that the GMC pickup has, dash and bench seat, it just has a bigger hood that gives the illusion of it being bigger.

When you get in it, that size shrinks, and then you will notice it isn't no wider then your pickup inside the cab, it is just the flaring of the front fenders that make it seem so much wider from the outside.

Now the frame is heavier, then the only changes they make to make it even more stronger, is when you order them, is a heavier front axle, heavier rear axles, and springs, or air suspension.

Regular tractors go with a single frame, but dump or tankers, haft to have double framed trucks, cause of the twisting, and extra stress. Regular trucks don't cause that would add to much weight, when it isn't really needed, but if you try to take a single framed truck and put it with a dump, then it will tear itself apart in no time.

That's why I never would buy a used truck that pulled a tanker, cause I know it has been abused, no matter how good care the operator took care of it, the tanker itself done the damage, cause it don't give, and it makes the truck do all the flexing, where all the other trailers flex.

It will actually tear in two, I have seen some try it, that thought they could get away with it. Then haft to take everything apart, and double frame it.

A double frame you can tell from the back end, when you see one frame inside the other.

Kerry

Hi Kerry
Thanks for your input. I've forgotten that sometimes pics are better than words....
So here's the Hobby Fan kit I'm talking about :


Here's the kit from MR Model :


And last but not least here's the truck I would like to put on my "to-do" list (thanks to Irocarmy88) :


Frenchy

Here are a few photos of the 2 1/2 ton dump. I hope that they will help

Here are some photos of the five ton dumps

IMHO....... the beds look pretty close ........

I agree with you. So the Hobby Fan set would be a good option...I already know that I will have to modify the fuel tank(s) but I have some reference pics...somewhere...

Thanks to all for the help !

Frenchy

The cab protector will have to lengthen to clear the cab. The 2 and half is about 105 inches and the five ton is 111.5 inches. It should not be too much of a problem for you though.

Sure...all the more so since this part is missing on the pictured "engineer guntruck" I would like to built (one of these days...)

Thanks again for the help !
Frenchy

To what I'm seeing, the model beds look real close, just a little design difference. But the line drawings, aren't they supposed to be of the real trucks, and the actual measurements right.

Then if the line drawings are of the real trucks, which seem right to me, and the model companies didn't do their homework. Now if you look real close at the line drawing bed heights, that is the way they are supposed to be, and the models are wrong.

Cause if you look at the line drawing for the 2 1/2 ton you will see it is quite a bit lower then the 5 ton bed, and it is made that way so they can't overload it to much.

Now if you look at any smaller load limit dump truck, you will see it has low sides from the manufacturer, and the higher the load limit, the higher the sides, but they do have places for side boards for lite loads.

Now it is OK for a 5 ton, but the sides need lowered for a 2 1/2 ton, the way it looks to me.But I guess that was what you was going to use it for anyway, so their mistake helps you, you was wanting to put it on a 5 ton right. As long as it looks like the picture there.

Another thing them model pictures, I noticed the MR showed a bed that was used, cause after just a couple loads of hauling big rocks, their beds will look like hell. Thats like when they first put the dike in here, they had to use a lot of National Guard trucks cause a lot of owner operators didn't want to haul them big rocks and tear up their beds.
Kerry

That's exactly my point of view. I have noticed the same difference about the 2 dump beds height. Now it's about time to order the HF set......

Thanks for the additional info.
Frenchy

I done some more looking at these line drawings, and I remember you saying something about the overall height, there shouldn't be much if any changes to the shims under the bed to clear the cab, the cabs should be the same size, the extra height was from the suspension, from 2 1/2 to 5 ton.

Then when I look at that Hobbyfan model again, that looks like an awful big gap between the tires and the bottom of the dump bed, then look at the 5 ton MR to how it looks real close.

I'm just hoping that if you order it, that it looks like the picture, I wished there was other views, cause I'm thinking we might be getting a camera effect here, and I couldn't understand Hobbyfan messing up on the measurements like that.

That's what got me to believing we are seeing wrong, cause they have a good reputation for getting things right, and I couldn't see them make a 5 ton bed, and call it a 2 1/2 ton bed. Another thing look at the MR both cabs are the same size, but the MR bed goes to the bottom of the cab, and the Hobbyfan starts a third way up. So I'll think it will not look the same when you get it, that in matter of fact, the Hobbyfan bed, will be shorter in height by a noticeable bit. That's my thinking, I'm sorry, but I never noticed the shadow before.

Kerry

Hum...the plot seems to be thickening Maybe I should put my VISA card aside for a while....I've finally found an enlargement of Dave's picture of the HF M59 (from the 2003 AFV Club/Hobby Fan catalog) : the dump bed definitely look like a 5-Ton truck dump bed IMHO :


The movable parts on each rear corners of the dump bed seems to be the same than those shown on the 5-Ton pictures. The best way to clear things up would be to order it...

Frenchy

Now a lot of people will never know the difference, even truck drivers, but if you look at the cab, and the cabs should be the same size, it doesn't matter if it is a 21/2, or 5 ton, the cab has nothing to do with it, but look at the bed to relation to the cabs

How the 5 ton bed goes to the bottom of the cab, and the 2/1/2 starts a third way up, so that means the bed has to be shorter in height like it is supposed to be, so they won't over load them.

It stands to reason, they don't want to give the room, cause, somebody won't know, and overload it.
In real life this means a lot, but on the model, I don't think anybody will even notice. But to tell you the truth, I would like to have the actual measurements of both of the model beds anyway, just for the hell of it, cause this has got me real curious now.

Like I said, I don't think anybody would know unless somebody parked a 5 ton model next to yours, and that would be the only way they would find out, and even then they would haft to look real close.

Using the word "yours" is a bit like putting the cart before the horse (at least before mine) because it implies I will actually build this truck..... and I still have not even ordered the HF set yet !
So you'd better be patient My projects are so numerous they have been compelled to take a ticket to stand in line....

Frenchy

This has all been hypothetically speaking from the start anyway.

But which ever, if any, or both, I sure would like to hear the measurements of the bed heights, if this becomes a reality.

Kerry

You'll be the first to know !



Frenchy

Dave these line drawings are yours, I presume, would you know the name of the 5 ton dump, I assume the 2/1/2 is the M59 , but what is the 5 ton number?
Thank You a head of time.
Kerry

From original post:

Thank You Gino