Well, first off, took a look at some of the models around on this site. and most of you guys (and any ladies) are geniuses with paint. I'm blown away by the detail in these models!! I myself am new to military models, but have a good amount of experience in doing car models. That though seems to be a totally different world though from these peices of art. so I have a few questions to ask. First off, just so you know, I have a itawa A.B. with a nice compressor, a full set of Tamiya Paints (various military colors), Testor paints, and the model I want to start is a M1A1tank.
So here are some questions, If any one has the time to give me some detailed instructions I'd be totally grateful.
1. I sparay my model with my airbruh using timiya as a base, do I then apply a varnish?
2. If I apply a varnish, what kind?
3. will that varnish make my model to shinny?
4. I'd like to make the all the lines in the model (cracks and creveases) to look dirty, like mud is stuck in there, how do I do that?
5. I read about washes, but the concept eludes me. what is it? can i do it with acrylic paint?
6. If i do a wash on top of acrylic paint, do I have to have a varnish coat?
7. what is the best blend for a wash?
8. what is the best kind of paint for drybrushing?
Well if any one can help me or has pictures I cn use as a guide as well, I could'nt express my thanks enough. Im sure i'll have more questions in the future, because I dont see myself straying from military models any time soon!!!!!
thank you.
AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Hosted by Darren Baker, Matthew Toms
a question for the profesionals
ellevehc86
Michigan, United States
Joined: February 15, 2005
KitMaker: 162 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: February 15, 2005
KitMaker: 162 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 04:40 PM UTC
AJLaFleche
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 04:59 PM UTC
First, Welcome to Armorama
Not necessary. I regularly spray laquer over acrylics with no problem.
Mix about 10% black or dark brown oil (preferably) or enamel paint and dab small amounts at junctions. Capillary action will draw this along the line. You want an accent, not mud. Apply this where you have any sharp angle, bolt heads, handles, etc.
See above. Acrylics don't tend to work well for this, both because of the surface tension of the water needed to thin it and the comparatively large pigment granules.
No, but a gloss finish will increase capilary action. Again, do not apply a wash over everything. You'll mess up your model. Guaranteed.
Black or burnt umber, ideally oil paint. Don't slosh this all over everything, do what I said in my answer to #4.
[quote]
Any paint will do for this. My all time favorite was the old Polly S paints. Oils tend to blend well, next come enamels, then acrylics. The best drybrushing paint is relatively lacking in carrying/thinning agent .
Hope this helps.
Quoted Text
1. I sparay my model with my airbruh using timiya as a base, do I then apply a varnish?
Not necessary. I regularly spray laquer over acrylics with no problem.
Quoted Text
see above.2. If I apply a varnish, what kind?
Quoted Text
After you do your basic colors, you'll want to get a glossy finish to apply any decals after which you'll add a wash to panel lines, and drybrush then apply a dull finish.3. will that varnish make my model to shinny?
Quoted Text
4. I'd like to make the all the lines in the model (cracks and creveases) to look dirty, like mud is stuck in there, how do I do that?
Mix about 10% black or dark brown oil (preferably) or enamel paint and dab small amounts at junctions. Capillary action will draw this along the line. You want an accent, not mud. Apply this where you have any sharp angle, bolt heads, handles, etc.
Quoted Text
5. I read about washes, but the concept eludes me. what is it? can i do it with acrylic paint?
See above. Acrylics don't tend to work well for this, both because of the surface tension of the water needed to thin it and the comparatively large pigment granules.
Quoted Text
6. If i do a wash on top of acrylic paint, do I have to have a varnish coat?
No, but a gloss finish will increase capilary action. Again, do not apply a wash over everything. You'll mess up your model. Guaranteed.
Quoted Text
7. what is the best blend for a wash?
Black or burnt umber, ideally oil paint. Don't slosh this all over everything, do what I said in my answer to #4.
[quote]
Quoted Text
8. what is the best kind of paint for drybrushing?
Any paint will do for this. My all time favorite was the old Polly S paints. Oils tend to blend well, next come enamels, then acrylics. The best drybrushing paint is relatively lacking in carrying/thinning agent .
Hope this helps.
Grumpyoldman
Consigliere
Florida, United States
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Joined: October 17, 2003
KitMaker: 15,338 posts
Armorama: 7,297 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 15, 2005 - 11:42 PM UTC
Well, after Al's excellent reply, all I can say is:
Welcome Aboard ----- Ellevehc86
Nice to meet you, and looking forward to getting to know you.
Welcome Aboard ----- Ellevehc86
Nice to meet you, and looking forward to getting to know you.
Sticky
Vermont, United States
Joined: September 14, 2004
KitMaker: 2,220 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Joined: September 14, 2004
KitMaker: 2,220 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 02:40 AM UTC
The above is very good advice, but let me add some mud to the water. This is the process I use to paint an AFV.
1. Prime / Preshade. For Dark colors I use black or a dark grey black, for light colors a dark brown.
2. Base coat. The base coat is applied fairly thinnly, but built up in layers, spending more time in panel centers etc, leaving some of the preshade showing through.
3. Post shade. A lightened base coat color is sprayed into panel centers, more tightly than above.
3a. Chips and scratches can be added here for a more worn look.
4. After setting at least 24 hours, model is coated in a THIN layer of Future. This should have a semi-gloss finish.
5. Apply decals
6. Another thin layer of future to seal in the decals.
7. Filter application, pin washes. Filters are super thin washes - almost dirty thinners, of enamel or oil based paints to change to overall tonality of the paint, you can cool it down, warm it up, these are built up in layers using different colors on horizontal and verticle surfaces can have stricking resulty - go easy here, less is more. Pin wash with Burnt umber on light colors and black on dark colors to highlight recesses.
Streaks and stains , oil rust fuel are also added at this stage
8. Flat coat.
9. Pigment application - this is the dust, mud, rust, can be used wet with turpeniod, white spirts, acrylic thinners, or dry.
10. you are done (note no dry brushing!) On wheeled vehicles I dry brush the tires to bring out surface details.
HTH
1. Prime / Preshade. For Dark colors I use black or a dark grey black, for light colors a dark brown.
2. Base coat. The base coat is applied fairly thinnly, but built up in layers, spending more time in panel centers etc, leaving some of the preshade showing through.
3. Post shade. A lightened base coat color is sprayed into panel centers, more tightly than above.
3a. Chips and scratches can be added here for a more worn look.
4. After setting at least 24 hours, model is coated in a THIN layer of Future. This should have a semi-gloss finish.
5. Apply decals
6. Another thin layer of future to seal in the decals.
7. Filter application, pin washes. Filters are super thin washes - almost dirty thinners, of enamel or oil based paints to change to overall tonality of the paint, you can cool it down, warm it up, these are built up in layers using different colors on horizontal and verticle surfaces can have stricking resulty - go easy here, less is more. Pin wash with Burnt umber on light colors and black on dark colors to highlight recesses.
Streaks and stains , oil rust fuel are also added at this stage
8. Flat coat.
9. Pigment application - this is the dust, mud, rust, can be used wet with turpeniod, white spirts, acrylic thinners, or dry.
10. you are done (note no dry brushing!) On wheeled vehicles I dry brush the tires to bring out surface details.
HTH
warvos
West-Vlaaderen, Belgium
Joined: June 06, 2004
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Joined: June 06, 2004
KitMaker: 350 posts
Armorama: 141 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 09:45 AM UTC
Welcome to the site Ellevehc86!!
I see that Al and Sticky supplied you with some first class tips already!!!
Everybody uses his own little techniques to make his model stand out, so I guess you should try a couple of different ways yourselve to find out what YOU like best, after all, you're the one having to look at the model every day!!
I tend to use washes all over the model, but I use very soft washes with a few different colours like burned sienna and burned umber, black or greenish depending on what colour you want your base coat to like in the end., very light and repeat this a couple of layers (offcourse you have to make sure the last layer is dried up completely, otherwise you'll just ruin the paintjob).
On armor, I use a light wash of humbrol matt black and thinner allover, and then before the wash dries up, I darken the wash considerable, and add it to the cracks and recesses with a fine brush. This way I don't get any stains where the brush touches the model outside the recesses, because the wet thinner thins the paint outside the lines, making it easy to dip away.
I also use a metallic wash over armor models, just thinner with a very little bit of humbrol enamel nr. 11 (metallic). It's a subtle effect, but it works to show your model is made from metal and not plastic...
:-) I don't know about realism of that effect, but I seen it on a few models already from others, and it looks nice.
The preshading and postshading works also fine, but It requires some skill with the airbrush, as you have to follow very specific lines in the model. I'd advise you to do a few testruns on an old ruined model first.
Have fun experementing, and show us some pics of your work as you go along!
I see that Al and Sticky supplied you with some first class tips already!!!
Everybody uses his own little techniques to make his model stand out, so I guess you should try a couple of different ways yourselve to find out what YOU like best, after all, you're the one having to look at the model every day!!
I tend to use washes all over the model, but I use very soft washes with a few different colours like burned sienna and burned umber, black or greenish depending on what colour you want your base coat to like in the end., very light and repeat this a couple of layers (offcourse you have to make sure the last layer is dried up completely, otherwise you'll just ruin the paintjob).
On armor, I use a light wash of humbrol matt black and thinner allover, and then before the wash dries up, I darken the wash considerable, and add it to the cracks and recesses with a fine brush. This way I don't get any stains where the brush touches the model outside the recesses, because the wet thinner thins the paint outside the lines, making it easy to dip away.
I also use a metallic wash over armor models, just thinner with a very little bit of humbrol enamel nr. 11 (metallic). It's a subtle effect, but it works to show your model is made from metal and not plastic...
:-) I don't know about realism of that effect, but I seen it on a few models already from others, and it looks nice.
The preshading and postshading works also fine, but It requires some skill with the airbrush, as you have to follow very specific lines in the model. I'd advise you to do a few testruns on an old ruined model first.
Have fun experementing, and show us some pics of your work as you go along!
LouMasses
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2002
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: March 11, 2002
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 10:47 AM UTC
Alright I have a bunch of questions too being out of armor and aircraft now for close to 15 years (I'm a figger guy).
After having been bitten recently again, I've been reading some stuff and keep running into the suggestion of "spraying with Future", then weathering then spraying with dullcoat. I know what Future is having used it for gloss on figures for the last 20 years, but why coat a tank in it? Then spray glosscoat? DOes it really offer that much of an improvement with decals?
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I've never quite had it explained other than "it helps with decals".
Signed ; the lazy modeller who wants to avoid extra steps.
After having been bitten recently again, I've been reading some stuff and keep running into the suggestion of "spraying with Future", then weathering then spraying with dullcoat. I know what Future is having used it for gloss on figures for the last 20 years, but why coat a tank in it? Then spray glosscoat? DOes it really offer that much of an improvement with decals?
Forgive me if this is a dumb question, but I've never quite had it explained other than "it helps with decals".
Signed ; the lazy modeller who wants to avoid extra steps.
3442
Quebec, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2004
KitMaker: 2,412 posts
Armorama: 1,174 posts
Joined: March 23, 2004
KitMaker: 2,412 posts
Armorama: 1,174 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 12:49 PM UTC
kay, i can answer something for! itl make me feel smart :-)
useing tamiya acrylics all the time, i only use there thinner to dilute it in my ab, works better
and for the washes, i like to havea 50/50 mixture of future floorwax, acrylics thinner, and then the paint, and only aply were its needed!
you can get varnashes at walmart in the toy section, i uses testors and tamiya, both work well. but using future floowax as a gloss coat works very well also, minimizes the cost, but you will neat a flat or dullcoat after the decals, once again, walamrt in the toy section, look for testors spray cans
Frank
useing tamiya acrylics all the time, i only use there thinner to dilute it in my ab, works better
and for the washes, i like to havea 50/50 mixture of future floorwax, acrylics thinner, and then the paint, and only aply were its needed!
you can get varnashes at walmart in the toy section, i uses testors and tamiya, both work well. but using future floowax as a gloss coat works very well also, minimizes the cost, but you will neat a flat or dullcoat after the decals, once again, walamrt in the toy section, look for testors spray cans
Frank
Sticky
Vermont, United States
Joined: September 14, 2004
KitMaker: 2,220 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Joined: September 14, 2004
KitMaker: 2,220 posts
Armorama: 1,707 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 01:29 PM UTC
Quoted Text
After having been bitten recently again, I've been reading some stuff and keep running into the suggestion of "spraying with Future", then weathering then spraying with dullcoat. I know what Future is having used it for gloss on figures for the last 20 years, but why coat a tank in it? Then spray glosscoat? DOes it really offer that much of an improvement with decals?
Lou. It is the most important step if you want your decals to look like paint. If you dont do this, you get varying degrees of silvering, or seeing the shinny edge. It is also very important for filter application. Only one layer of Filters will be effective on a flat surface, while a semigloss surface can have an infinate numbers of filters applied. A semigloss surface is also important for washes, as it allows the paint to run better in crevaces etc.
HTH.
LouMasses
New Jersey, United States
Joined: March 11, 2002
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: March 11, 2002
KitMaker: 73 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 03:12 PM UTC
Thanks John, at least I understand the "why" now. Now I just have to read about filtering. I think there's something over on Missing Lynx about that.
capnjock
United States
Joined: May 19, 2003
KitMaker: 860 posts
Armorama: 411 posts
Joined: May 19, 2003
KitMaker: 860 posts
Armorama: 411 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 04:04 PM UTC
A good reference with plenty of pictures to start with is 'panzer tactics' by Chris Mrosko. It is handled by VLS.
capnjock
capnjock
ellevehc86
Michigan, United States
Joined: February 15, 2005
KitMaker: 162 posts
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Joined: February 15, 2005
KitMaker: 162 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 06:17 AM UTC
Thanks to everyone for all your advice. I decided to skip my M1A1 model for right now, and start off with a model of an A-10 warthog, and its coming along nicely, I'll be posting pics real soon.
Thanks!!!!!
Thanks!!!!!