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Armor/AFV: Modern - USA
Modern Armor, AFVs, and Support vehicles.
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Old ESCI M60 kit
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
KitMaker: 4,342 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 02:25 AM UTC
Yesterday I bought old ESCI M60 Blazer kit, which somehow managed to survive on the shelf of one of hobby shops in Warsaw. The price was exactly the same as for the Italeri re-release.

I compared old parts with Italeri molding and ESCI sprues have more flash on parts. But there are no sink holes on them! All road wheels are perfectly molded. Unlike in Italeri (and also Revell rebox) kits, where there are ugly and unfixable sink holes in half of the road wheels...

I remember reading someone claiming that sink holes plaguing practically all Italeri kits are result of poorly designed molds. Well, the example of M60 kit shows that this is not true. From the same molds ESCI was producing fully formed parts and once Italeri got them, sink holes appeared... This means that Italeri just are making some serious errors during the molding process.

I hope in a few years someone will buy Italeri molds and re-release their kits using proper quality molding process!

Pawel
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:16 AM UTC
I've got the M60A3TTS, M60A1 and multiple M60 Blazer kits from Esci. I even have a of the Blazer kit in AMT box. I never saw and sink holes in them. As a matter of fact, there was very little flash. Of course, I have just a small representative sample.

Of the new reissues, I took a look inside the Italeri M60A1 and M60 Blazer kits at the local shop. I did not look for or notice any imperfections, I was just checking to see if there were any differences from the Esci ones.

I did buy the Revell of Germany M60A3TTS last year. Again, I didn't notice any imperfections, but haven't really inspected the kit.

As to the sink hole problem, perhaps Italeri uses a different type of plastic or their pressure isn't quite the same as Esci used. I don't know.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Of the new reissues, I took a look inside the Italeri M60A1 and M60 Blazer kits at the local shop. I did not look for or notice any imperfections, I was just checking to see if there were any differences from the Esci ones.

I did buy the Revell of Germany M60A3TTS last year. Again, I didn't notice any imperfections, but haven't really inspected the kit.

Take a close look at road wheels. I have two Italeri M60A1 kits and one Revell M60A3 kit and all have the same problem - sink holes inside about a half of road wheels. There is no way to fix it (complex shape, bolt heads etc.). The only way to hide it is to put a lot of mud on wheels.

I plan to use "steel" wheels from Tamiya M60A1 RISE/Passive on one of Italeri models and will use good wheels from this kit to replace some bad ones in other models. Still I will probably have to build one M60 with "muddy" wheels

Pawel
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:46 AM UTC
I'm not overly worried. I have plenty of the old Esci Blazer kits that close out stores sold for $4.99. Got my AMT Blazer kit for a whopping $2.50. I will just use a set of those wheels to "fix" the A3 (I haven't checked it so I don't know how many will need replacing).
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:55 AM UTC
Who was it actually 're-boxed' the Esci kits? Revell?..Jim
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
Joined: March 26, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Who was it actually 're-boxed' the Esci kits? Revell?..Jim


Italeri bought ESCI molds and rereleased their kits. They released M60A1 and M60 blazer kits. Then Revell released M60A3 kit, but it was also molded by Italeri (Made in Italy on the box) and just boxed by Revell.

Pawel
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 03:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Who was it actually 're-boxed' the Esci kits? Revell?..Jim


Actually, Italeri acquired the old Esci molds and is now producing the ex-Esci M60 series. Revell has reboxed the new Italeri kits.
jimbrae
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Provincia de Lugo, Spain / Espaņa
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 04:02 AM UTC
So it is a safe bet to buy Italeri M60s? Thanks...Jim
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 04:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Actually, Italeri acquired the old Esci molds and is now producing the ex-Esci M60 series. Revell has reboxed the new Italeri kits.


Well, almost :-) Revell sell M60A3 variant, which Italeri do not sell. Ouch... my head aches :-) :-)

Pawel
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 04:06 AM UTC
Pawel's correct. Of the former Esci M60 kits, Italeri reboxes just the M60A1 and M60 Blazer. Revell reboxes the M60A3, not Italeri.

As far as other ex-Esci kits, Italeri does quite a few of them like the horse drawn supply wagon, T-55 and most of their 1/72 scale armor. There are most likely a few 1/35 German armor kits, but I'm not that familiar with what Esci originally produced.
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 04:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

So it is a safe bet to buy Italeri M60s? Thanks...Jim


They are great kits, considered the best M60 kits produced. Other than the problem IDed by Vodnik, (I have not sen any sinkhole problems myself) is that the tow pintle halves are molded 180 degrees out of register, i.e. while one side is correct, the other is upside down.
blaster76
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 06:41 AM UTC
Well, this discussion prompted me to go check out my '60 kits. I too have an AMT kit..no sink holes I also have the Academy M-60a1 Rise with dozer blade and no sink holes and one of those Accuratte mini Hobbies kits they gave me an extra set of road wheels, but no sinkholes. Of interesting note though...in the minihobbies box I found a colony of little red ants living. I found this in one of my other kits a while back..It was a nice warm day today so I went out front and found the Fire Ant nest that has plagued me for the past year and dumped the red ant colony on top. I think the reds will either win or sure disrupt the fire's. :-)
RotorHead67
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Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 12:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Pawel's correct. Of the former Esci M60 kits, Italeri reboxes just the M60A1 and M60 Blazer. Revell reboxes the M60A3, not Italeri.

As far as other ex-Esci kits, Italeri does quite a few of them like the horse drawn supply wagon, T-55 and most of their 1/72 scale armor. There are most likely a few 1/35 German armor kits, but I'm not that familiar with what Esci originally produced.


Sabot,
Heck I think the M60 is fairly well covered. How about a rebox of the old LAV series that Esci kitted.
I know they werte a little rough but at least we had a good starting point to improve our skills and have fun detailing. I would really like to get my hands on the command version. I let it past into exstinction before I relized it was gone. LOL Todd
HeavyArty
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Florida, United States
Joined: May 16, 2002
KitMaker: 17,694 posts
Armorama: 13,742 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 01:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text


How about a rebox of the old LAV series that Esci kitted.
I would really like to get my hands on the command version. I let it past into exstinction before I relized it was gone. LOL Todd


Looking for this.


Currently on Ebay, only going for $1. Better get it while it is hot!!

LAV-C

Just happened to see it. Good luck.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 12:35 AM UTC
Here's an old photo I found. Shows a mixture of steel and aluminum road wheels. Brings back some memories. Hard to believe everything below the fenders was left green.
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