I have an opinion -- I'm looking for others to confirm me or change me. Please note this kit is not done -- lots of details and weathering to add. I just want opinions on the Hessian tape camo.
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Hessian Tape attempt on Sherman III
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 02:59 PM UTC
For your review and critique, my attempt to add Hessian tape camo to my British Sherman III (M4A2 75mm). It's the Trakz M4A2 hull on an Academy lower with a low-bustle turret off a Tamiya M4. The net, which you can barely see, is made from medical gauze soaked in tea. The Hessian tape is made from strips of masking tape.
I have an opinion -- I'm looking for others to confirm me or change me. Please note this kit is not done -- lots of details and weathering to add. I just want opinions on the Hessian tape camo.
I have an opinion -- I'm looking for others to confirm me or change me. Please note this kit is not done -- lots of details and weathering to add. I just want opinions on the Hessian tape camo.
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
Armorama: 3,777 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 03:15 PM UTC
i like it!! Are you planning to net the hull sides too? Do they usually weave the strips in the netting or are you just using artistic license?
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 03:32 PM UTC
Alan:
I haven't decided about the sides yet ... probaly not because it is more work than I want to do at this point.
The Hessian tape is weird stuff. Some pics show it weaved in and others just show it "hung," like I have done on this. This seems to really common on Cromwells and less so on Shermans, but I liked the look, so I went with it. Kinda has a Rastafari look to it ...
gotta fix that driver's nose -- looks like I nicked the tip bringing him up through the hatch!
I haven't decided about the sides yet ... probaly not because it is more work than I want to do at this point.
The Hessian tape is weird stuff. Some pics show it weaved in and others just show it "hung," like I have done on this. This seems to really common on Cromwells and less so on Shermans, but I liked the look, so I went with it. Kinda has a Rastafari look to it ...
gotta fix that driver's nose -- looks like I nicked the tip bringing him up through the hatch!
andy007
Joined: May 01, 2002
KitMaker: 2,088 posts
Armorama: 1,257 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 06:04 PM UTC
I think this is a very good idea and looks good. I do have one suggestion however. In the colour photos I have seen with tanks wearing hessian strip camo some have mixtures of green and brown hessian strips. though it still looks good the way it is.
What is the Trakz M4A2 like?
What is the Trakz M4A2 like?
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
Armorama: 2,130 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 06:19 PM UTC
All the 'tape & net' cammo that I've seen had shorter and varied lengths of tape, and they were more sparsely applied in the netting, so that the net was still visible. Something like a tape every two or three sguares of net, and alternate squares in each row so that it didn't have a uniform effect.
I know you haven't finished this yet, but the tapes would be brown, green and a dirty yellow on the examples I've seen in museums. The museum exhibits could of course be post-WW2...............
I know you haven't finished this yet, but the tapes would be brown, green and a dirty yellow on the examples I've seen in museums. The museum exhibits could of course be post-WW2...............
bilko
Joined: April 22, 2003
KitMaker: 584 posts
Armorama: 241 posts
Posted: Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:20 AM UTC
Bob
Interesting concept of which I have no experience. Although I think for effect it may look better if all the strips were not a uniform colour - or length for that matter.
I just couldn't resist the frost bite on the drivers nose :-)
I know that this is a work in progress - and that you have already twigged on the white spot - but it just managed to tickle my funny bone.
Brian
Interesting concept of which I have no experience. Although I think for effect it may look better if all the strips were not a uniform colour - or length for that matter.
I just couldn't resist the frost bite on the drivers nose :-)
I know that this is a work in progress - and that you have already twigged on the white spot - but it just managed to tickle my funny bone.
Brian
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Friday, February 25, 2005 - 01:01 PM UTC
Quoted Text
What is the Trakz M4A2 like?
It's pretty nice, though it's a good thing I had an Academy lower hull to go with it. I got two upper rears and no lower rearend in my kit. Dare I say the basic hull is better than the Formations M4A2, though you get all kinds of goodies with the Formations kit. The welds are nicer, the hatches are just as good, and the bold strip at the top of the rear deck is more correct (but you can't see it if the bustle covers it).
Quoted Text
All the 'tape & net' cammo that I've seen had shorter and varied lengths of tape, and they were more sparsely applied in the netting, so that the net was still visible. Something like a tape every two or three sguares of net, and alternate squares in each row so that it didn't have a uniform effect.
I know you haven't finished this yet, but the tapes would be brown, green and a dirty yellow on the examples I've seen in museums. The museum exhibits could of course be post-WW2...............
Thanks for the info, Dave. I've been operating from B&W photos in Squadron's old "D-Day to Berlin" title. Do you know any on-line pics of Hessian tape in color? They all look the same color in B&W. Also, the density of the tapes seems to vary in the pics I have -- sometimes sparse and sometimes thick. I got a little carried away and went for the "thick look," even though it seems more common on Cromwells -- some look like dust mops on tracks.
DaveCox
Joined: January 11, 2003
KitMaker: 4,307 posts
Armorama: 2,130 posts
Posted: Friday, February 25, 2005 - 07:20 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Do you know any on-line pics of Hessian tape in color? They all look the same color in B&W. Also, the density of the tapes seems to vary in the pics I have -- sometimes sparse and sometimes thick. I got a little carried away and went for the "thick look," even though it seems more common on Cromwells -- some look like dust mops on tracks.
Sorry Bob, all the pics that Google comes up with are of the modern 'die cut shapes' type of netting! Just one of those memories from going to military shows and museums as often as possible over many years I guess.
ex-royal
Joined: May 03, 2003
KitMaker: 1,009 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 12:34 AM UTC
Hi Bob,
that is quite the ambitous project you got going there. It takes some big brass ones to try and pull this effect off. I think your doing a bang up job. I would try and vary the colours of the hessian though. It came in several shades of light and dark green as well as light and dark brown. It was dilivered much like it is today in large rolls approx 1 yard wide. I know from experience that hessian rarely keeps its "square" shape once cut . It tends to "roll" and curl up a bit. Another great effect would be to maybe shove in some branches from a tree for added camo and that would just increase the 3D effect. I think your on the right track though. Keep up the great work.
Cheers,
Bryan
that is quite the ambitous project you got going there. It takes some big brass ones to try and pull this effect off. I think your doing a bang up job. I would try and vary the colours of the hessian though. It came in several shades of light and dark green as well as light and dark brown. It was dilivered much like it is today in large rolls approx 1 yard wide. I know from experience that hessian rarely keeps its "square" shape once cut . It tends to "roll" and curl up a bit. Another great effect would be to maybe shove in some branches from a tree for added camo and that would just increase the 3D effect. I think your on the right track though. Keep up the great work.
Cheers,
Bryan
Stormbringer
Joined: January 20, 2002
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
Armorama: 1,116 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 05:44 AM UTC
Bob
Your Sherman looks good to me. Are you modelling it as a Coldstream Guards vehicle?
Pete
Your Sherman looks good to me. Are you modelling it as a Coldstream Guards vehicle?
Pete
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 06:57 AM UTC
Thanks for the comments and tips, guys. I messed with it a bit last night and added a few more drybrushings of browns and greens to vary the tones. I don't know if it is accurate, but it looks good to me.
Bryan-- I was going to add a few branches right before calling it "done."
Peter -- At this point, it is a vehicle from the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry, 8th Armoured Brigade -- at least that's what the markings on the rear end make it
Bryan-- I was going to add a few branches right before calling it "done."
Peter -- At this point, it is a vehicle from the Sherwood Rangers Yeomanry, 8th Armoured Brigade -- at least that's what the markings on the rear end make it
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 07:46 AM UTC
Howdy Bob,
Wow!....nice work there sir.
And a very interesting addition to Sherman applique 'stuff'. Hadn't thought about doing that particular bit of camo (have thought about the Ninth Army's 'spun web' look), but I can honestly say that you've done a bang-up job.
As I'm sure you know, the really tough part about doing this is getting the strips to 'lay' right. I had a somewhat similar wrestling match with my scratched Kevlar curtain debacle on my T2K entry.
Did you choose to use masking tape because of it's adhesive backing alllowing you to slightly control it's 'lay' and curl??
Tread.
P.S. I don't think your driver has frostbite on the end of his nose, I think he just sneaked a quick swig of a frothy pint of British Ale!.......
Wow!....nice work there sir.
And a very interesting addition to Sherman applique 'stuff'. Hadn't thought about doing that particular bit of camo (have thought about the Ninth Army's 'spun web' look), but I can honestly say that you've done a bang-up job.As I'm sure you know, the really tough part about doing this is getting the strips to 'lay' right. I had a somewhat similar wrestling match with my scratched Kevlar curtain debacle on my T2K entry.
Did you choose to use masking tape because of it's adhesive backing alllowing you to slightly control it's 'lay' and curl??
Tread.
P.S. I don't think your driver has frostbite on the end of his nose, I think he just sneaked a quick swig of a frothy pint of British Ale!.......
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 08:01 AM UTC
I've been thinking about doing a Hessian tape camo job since I saw this article on Missing Links a while back: http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/britain/emhess/hessian.htm
When I was researching my British M4A2, I kept going back to the "D-Day to Berlin" book and decided to go for it. Plus, I managed to botch the initial paint job, trying to shoot Humbrol through my airbrush. I ended up brush painting the entire model, but there were still some ugly areas on the turret and hull front. As I am a better builder than painter, the idea of trying new techniques always intrigues me. My airbrush intimidates me, but I have no problem taking a razor saw or Dremel to a kit ... I digress.
I figured I could do the tapes with either masking tape or lead foil. I went with the masking tape because of its adhesive properties, but now that I have been painting and washing on it, it is trying to curl away in the wrong places -- so I've had to add a few drops of superglue here and there.
When I was researching my British M4A2, I kept going back to the "D-Day to Berlin" book and decided to go for it. Plus, I managed to botch the initial paint job, trying to shoot Humbrol through my airbrush. I ended up brush painting the entire model, but there were still some ugly areas on the turret and hull front. As I am a better builder than painter, the idea of trying new techniques always intrigues me. My airbrush intimidates me, but I have no problem taking a razor saw or Dremel to a kit ... I digress.
I figured I could do the tapes with either masking tape or lead foil. I went with the masking tape because of its adhesive properties, but now that I have been painting and washing on it, it is trying to curl away in the wrong places -- so I've had to add a few drops of superglue here and there.
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 08:53 AM UTC
So, if you were to do it again....what would you use?
Tread.
Oh, just FYI. I wasn't really happy with my attempt using moistened index card stock, so I tried a few methods just throwing 'caution to the wind' and came across something that worked pretty good (I still have to refine it a tad more).
I used strips I cut of (believe it or not) Taco Bell napkins (the surface of the napkins is almost identical to the surface of a tarp) and used a spray bottle filled with warm water and misted the strips. I then took one of my daughter's hairdryers set on it's minimum setting of airflow and blew upward and at an angle to the bottom of the strips. The strips were on my desk, and I held the hairdryer down low (below my knee) and gently blew back and forth.
The moistened strips blew upward at first, and then settled back down. But the effective part was, that each strip settled back just slightly different from it's neighbour because each had gotten a slightly different dosing of water......
As I say, I still need to work on it some more, but the effect definitely had some merit.
Tread.
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 09:12 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, if you were to do it again....what would you use?
Uh, maybe Taco Bell napkins?
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
Armorama: 2,868 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 09:30 AM UTC
LMAO!!!!......
:-) :-) ahhhhhh, you're such a kidder.....
Laugh all you will guys, but check 'em out next time you stop by for a Soft shell Taco Grande..........
Ole !!Tread.
EDIT: kewl, first time I got to use the Viva Zapata smiley!
bbtoys
Joined: June 17, 2004
KitMaker: 93 posts
Armorama: 46 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 10:04 AM UTC
Hello Bob,
Thanks for sharing your project with us--looks great. I will hopefully be doing some Hessian tape camo myself in the near future and would like to know whether they were cut to a standard width in WWII. If so, any idea what it was and what it would be in scale?
Cheers, Richard
Thanks for sharing your project with us--looks great. I will hopefully be doing some Hessian tape camo myself in the near future and would like to know whether they were cut to a standard width in WWII. If so, any idea what it was and what it would be in scale?
Cheers, Richard
andy007
Joined: May 01, 2002
KitMaker: 2,088 posts
Armorama: 1,257 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 04:53 PM UTC
Thanks for the info on the traks hull Bob I really appricate it
Hollowpoint
Joined: January 24, 2002
KitMaker: 2,748 posts
Armorama: 1,797 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 27, 2005 - 04:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hello Bob,
Thanks for sharing your project with us--looks great. I will hopefully be doing some Hessian tape camo myself in the near future and would like to know whether they were cut to a standard width in WWII. If so, any idea what it was and what it would be in scale?
Cheers, Richard
I don't know, Richard. I just kind of "eye-balled" them and made a guess at the width. From what I understand, it varied, so I wasn't too worried about measuring when I cut the strips.
Desert-Fox
Joined: October 22, 2002
KitMaker: 652 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 07:16 AM UTC
Looks like you have a sweaty in the driving position.....Nice to see the Scots so well represented.
:-) :-) :-)
No harm meant to our Jock mates!!!!
:-) :-) :-)
No harm meant to our Jock mates!!!!
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