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Armor/AFV: Guntrucks!
Guntrucks of all nationalities and flavors.
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Building a guntruck, literally!!
Armor135
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Ohio, United States
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 335 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 20, 2002 - 11:40 AM UTC
Today when I was airbrushing my M88 I was thinking of a diorama I could do. I was thinking of having the M88, 5ton truck, M113, and the weapons, ammo etc. on the ground. My question(S) are can the M88 lift up the hull of a M113, if the engine, and most of the interior is gone? 2nd. how is the M113 secured onto the bed of the truck, so I can have them on the ground, if there straps, welded, whatever. If the M88 can't lift the M113 hull how many would it take to lift it. Lastly, if the M88 was moving around, lifting things up would the hatches be open on the top of the tank or would they be closed. One more thing, were did they usually construct the guntrucks at, in a base?

As for the guntruck it self, I've been thinking about buying a conversion from someone, and doing either a fictional guntruck, or a real guntruck. I dont have any questions about the guntruck right now but just to give you an idea.


Thanks,
Mike
matt
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New York, United States
Joined: February 28, 2002
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Posted: Friday, September 20, 2002 - 06:08 PM UTC
The boom Capacity of M-88

the M-113

It most definatly can lift it.

Matt
Armor135
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Ohio, United States
Joined: March 02, 2002
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Posted: Friday, September 27, 2002 - 11:58 PM UTC
Thanks for the reply Matt, 1 more question what should be used in order to lift the M113 hull. Rope, cables etc.?

Mike
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
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Posted: Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 12:17 AM UTC
Cables or chains from the main hoist hook to each of the four lifting rings on the back deck and front slope of the M113. When you remove the roadwheel arms from the M113, remember to add the mounting bolt holes around the torsion bar holes. Most likely, the lower hull of the M113 would have been damaged by a mine before being turned over to guntruck makers to convert it to a guntruck.
ARMDCAV
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Posted: Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 03:07 AM UTC
Mat, thanks for the info on the 88A2. What type of engine does it have a turbine?
Back in the 60's we still had the 88's, the 12 cyl gasser. You could feel one of them coming before you heard it and when you did hear it you still had to wait awhile until it showed up. I remember once while stationed in Germany back in 1970 I stuck a 60A1 in a ravine in place IIRC wascalled Wildflicken. Again IIRC (been 32 years) Wildflicken is an area that was taken over by the german army in the 30's to train their troops in panzer tactics. Moved whole populations out of 5 or 6 villages. We used the area for pretty much the same. Any way what was left of the villages was for the most part off limits. An article 15 if your caught in one so you go around not through them. Gonna be a couple of miles around the bypass road to the assembly area and the cooks don't take kindly to late arrivals. So I take what looks like a shortcut down a wide ravine. It wasn't. Bellyed up half way down. About 15 or 20 yds from the road. Dumb. Man this was dumb. Swallowing what pride I had left I got on the horn and reported our location and sorry condition and requested assistance. The snorts and chuckles on the net were not by God appreciated. No sir not one damn bit. Total lack of radio procedures if you ask me. I stick my head out of the hatch and inform the guys that help will be along, eventually ,so park it. Still remember the look the driver gave me. Gitten no respect here. Along toward dark we hear the 88 coming so I park that smart ass driver in the tank to monitor the radio while the rest of us go back up to the road to wait for it. Here it comes snortin and bellering and pawing the ground. To this day I still swear that there were 8 or 9 guys on that thing. Damn tourists, you would think they had better things to do then come to gawk. The driver swings it around facing the ravine and drops the spade 3 inches from my toes( seemed like 3 inches any way). These guys were having way too much fun. The Motor sargent himself sticks his head out the TC's hatch and with a totaly straight face hollers at me "hey, you the guy called for a wrecker?". Everyones crackin up but me. "yea I did. It's is down there, so lets see you get it out laughing boy". He climbs down off the 88 and looks down the ravine for a minute or two and when he turned around he wasn't laughing. All business after that. The mechanics walk down to get an idea how stuck is it. It's stuck. In about an hour they have a rig worked up using 3 double block pullys to the tank and anchored to a big tree. The driver is in the tank with everything buttoned up and the rest of us are behind the 88. If the cable parts it could kill you real quick. The 88 cranks up, takes a strain on the cable and then hunkers down to the task at hand. Must have been about a hundred tons dead weight pull on that cable. Things are getting a little hairy about then. It's dark, the 88's howling like a demon , 5 foot blue flames are shooting out the back of the mufflers, the Motor sargent's sweating like pig, the ground is shaking, the 88's engine is turning about 20,000 rpm,(sounded like it anyway) and all we need now is some thunder and lighting. That damn tank aint budging. This was NOT a kodak moment. About now nobody's laughing any more. The great idea of coming along wasn't so great anymore. The 88's engine backs down and the motor sargent tells the driver in the tank to try and shake it when he hears the 88 rev up again. The 88 driver floors it, the 88 looks like it's about to do a nose dance, the tank driver does a little shimmy, the tank lurches back enough to get some traction and out it comes. Total time from sticking it to recovery, a little less than 11 hours. Most of it waiting for the 88 to get there. Were hungry, dirty, tired and still keyed up from the recovery effort. Laughing boy's making snide remarks and comments about tankers in general and the peanut gallery's getting their second wind. Not quite through with the nights festivities the Motor Sargent asks me do I need an escort back, just incase or do I think I can find it on my own? I'm thinking if there's any justice here that overworked engine's gonna give it up 3 miles out and laughing boy's gonna need a tow. We get all the gear stowed away, checked the tracks and suspension and headed for the assembly area. Right through that damn village. #:-)
matt
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Posted: Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 03:58 AM UTC
Apparently still the 12 cylinder engine.

Matt
sgtreef
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: March 01, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, September 28, 2002 - 09:39 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Mat, thanks for the info on the 88A2. What type of engine does it have a turbine?
Back in the 60's we still had the 88's, the 12 cyl gasser. You could feel one of them coming before you heard it and when you did hear it you still had to wait awhile until it showed up. I remember once while stationed in Germany back in 1970 I stuck a 60A1 in a ravine in place IIRC wascalled Wildflicken. Again IIRC (been 32 years) Wildflicken is an area that was taken over by the german army in the 30's to train their troops in panzer tactics. Moved whole populations out of 5 or 6 villages. We used the area for pretty much the same. Any way what was left of the villages was for the most part off limits. An article 15 if your caught in one so you go around not through them. Gonna be a couple of miles around the bypass road to the assembly area and the cooks don't take kindly to late arrivals. So I take what looks like a shortcut down a wide ravine. It wasn't. Bellyed up half way down. About 15 or 20 yds from the road. Dumb. Man this was dumb. Swallowing what pride I had left I got on the horn and reported our location and sorry condition and requested assistance. The snorts and chuckles on the net were not by God appreciated. No sir not one damn bit. Total lack of radio procedures if you ask me. I stick my head out of the hatch and inform the guys that help will be along, eventually ,so park it. Still remember the look the driver gave me. Gitten no respect here. Along toward dark we hear the 88 coming so I park that smart ass driver in the tank to monitor the radio while the rest of us go back up to the road to wait for it. Here it comes snortin and bellering and pawing the ground. To this day I still swear that there were 8 or 9 guys on that thing. Damn tourists, you would think they had better things to do then come to gawk. The driver swings it around facing the ravine and drops the spade 3 inches from my toes( seemed like 3 inches any way). These guys were having way too much fun. The Motor sargent himself sticks his head out the TC's hatch and with a totaly straight face hollers at me "hey, you the guy called for a wrecker?". Everyones crackin up but me. "yea I did. It's is down there, so lets see you get it out laughing boy". He climbs down off the 88 and looks down the ravine for a minute or two and when he turned around he wasn't laughing. All business after that. The mechanics walk down to get an idea how stuck is it. It's stuck. In about an hour they have a rig worked up using 3 double block pullys to the tank and anchored to a big tree. The driver is in the tank with everything buttoned up and the rest of us are behind the 88. If the cable parts it could kill you real quick. The 88 cranks up, takes a strain on the cable and then hunkers down to the task at hand. Must have been about a hundred tons dead weight pull on that cable. Things are getting a little hairy about then. It's dark, the 88's howling like a demon , 5 foot blue flames are shooting out the back of the mufflers, the Motor sargent's sweating like pig, the ground is shaking, the 88's engine is turning about 20,000 rpm,(sounded like it anyway) and all we need now is some thunder and lighting. That damn tank aint budging. This was NOT a kodak moment. About now nobody's laughing any more. The great idea of coming along wasn't so great anymore. The 88's engine backs down and the motor sargent tells the driver in the tank to try and shake it when he hears the 88 rev up again. The 88 driver floors it, the 88 looks like it's about to do a nose dance, the tank driver does a little shimmy, the tank lurches back enough to get some traction and out it comes. Total time from sticking it to recovery, a little less than 11 hours. Most of it waiting for the 88 to get there. Were hungry, dirty, tired and still keyed up from the recovery effort. Laughing boy's making snide remarks and comments about tankers in general and the peanut gallery's getting their second wind. Not quite through with the nights festivities the Motor Sargent asks me do I need an escort back, just incase or do I think I can find it on my own? I'm thinking if there's any justice here that overworked engine's gonna give it up 3 miles out and laughing boy's gonna need a tow. We get all the gear stowed away, checked the tracks and suspension and headed for the assembly area. Right through that damn village. #:-)



I was in wild flicken myself in 1982 thru 1983 rebuilding those range roads. we had this hotdog driver driving a tractor and pan he was playing with the pan while driving guess what he let it down to much and caught the ground dead stop on the pan which pulls away from the tractor well he goes off into the woods the tractor falls over lucky he had his belt on if I remember the tractor was about 15 tons in itself. total about 25 tons The CO made him a driver after this but you know what a bicycle everybody was cracked about it except him well this was the second piece of equiptment he tore up. (:-)

so hope this makes you feel a little better. Okay one time we are coming back from the field in Korea you know how those Roks are trying to dodge into our convoy well I had a surprise for this Rok capt's jeep I swung into the middle of the road but wait it was raining cats and dogs so this driver takes the ditch Rice patty well me and my shotgun are looking back out the rear view mirrors to make sure he didn't flip or get hurt well no damage to him except his jeep which is up to its butt in muck and him out their in pouring rain yelling at my motor sgt who is yelling back at him. We contuine on back to garrision my motor sgt comes in latter and says did you not see the Jeep I say no sarge it was raining like a mother. He says give me your license I say okay. Gives my truck to Keifer to drive, next field problem he can't back it to the door to load up the plts gear with the water buffalo on it ,plt sgt says get that idiot out of the truck and drive the damn thing as we don't have all day to get out of here I say but sarge I don't have no license he says here it is drive the *ucking thing plus he gives me a smile on Korean Capt (:-)
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