On the Tank destroyers campaign a member is wanting to enter a M12 155mm SP gun as a tank destroyer. I know that it was a heavy artillery gun. But I have read where it had been used against tanks with devastating results! My question is, could the M12 155mm be used with direct fire against tanks?

TIA,

Garry

Yes, under the right circumstances it can be a direct fire weapon, it is a field gun not a howitzer. Iread a section out of 'Death Traps' by Belton Cooper that speaks of just such an incident during the time of the Bulge. As it was described an M12 was traveling on narrow, winding, road and came around a sharp bend to find a tiger tank coming the opposite way. The Tiger had its gun slewed to one side. The M12 already had a projectile in the gun and fire from point blank range. The shell hit at the turret race and the blast penetrated into the hull and killed the entire Tiger crew. Talk about luck on their side.

Yes... We are still training "direct fire" on enemy armor, in the Danish Artillery! - I've tried it myself a couple of times...

Bjoern

Not entirely convinced by the Bulge story

Anyway, the M12 could fire direct, and (in theory) take on tanks. There is a nice shot of an M12 bunker-busting in either the Concord or Squadron books on US SP artillery. Tremendous muzzle blast kicking up mud and the front of the M12 is off the ground.

That is very interesting! It surely had enough power to take out any tank.

Thanks for your input!

Garry

Yes, but if the targeted tank is maneuvering even the slightest, that M12 has only one shot to make the kill before it'll be on the receiving end of multiple rounds coming from the same tank.

I know artillerymen train for direct fire engagements even today. I'd still put my money on an old T-55 or M48 medium tank over a more modern Paladin, AS90 or PzHbtz 2000 in a head to head direct fire match.

I have to go with Rob on this one. Yes, we train direct fire, It is very dificult and a hit still doesn't gaurantee a kill, esp. with modern tanks. Any artillery piece can be used against a tank, but they are not designed for it and the sights are not designed or it. Also, most modern tanks will not be penetrated by a 155mm HE round, it will just bounce off and piss off the crew. I would not consider an SP artillery piece as a Tank Destroyer.

I look at it this way. Anything can be used to shoot at a tank hoping for a lucky shot. I can even use a slingshot and M80s hoping for a lucky bounce. However I think all would agree that the main purpose of the M12 is not destroying tanks. Therefore I would lean towards disqualifying the M12.

I don't think the 155 mm gun was ever designated or designed as an anti tank gun (regardless of means of transport).
The M12 was not designed as an anti tank wapon either, so I don't think it fits the bill for this campaign.

Cheers
Henk

I'd have to say that the spirit, if not the letter, of the campaign is that it be for units that are designed to be tank destroyers. I'd say this wouldn't count.

As an aside I have a book at home that has a good quote from a German officer commanding a fortress in late 1944. He said, "when the Americans start using 155s as sniper weapons, it's time to give up."

That would be a great model, just not for a tank destroyer campaign.

I have to agree with comments posted. While I know artillery crews are trained to fire in the direct fire role that is a last ditch save their ass type of deal. They are not tank hunters and as was pointed out their guns can't effective track and shoot moving targets.

I wouldn't allow the M12 as a tank hunter. To do so really means allowing any artillery piece to be entered and that wasn't the point to the campaign.

I was going to ask if the 251/22 is allowed but when I read the rules as posted it said "full tracked" so I assumed it wouldn't be. (Just got the kit recently and it looks great in the box).

Kind of reminds me of being trained to fire LAW rockets at modern Russian MBTs... death wish always came to mind...