I don't know if you read my last message titled "building a guntruck, leterally." I was asking if a M88 can lift a M113 and found out it can. So my next question is, the M113 hull. I have the Academy M113 that I was going to use for the M113 Guntruck, I dont know which one I am going to do yet. First question, Where the wheels go there are some axles molded on the model. Should I sand them off? Second question, what is left in the interior? Iam thinking maybee the benches, radio, and seats, anything else? Thirdly, how do they secure the hull in the back of the truck? Fourthly, what would be used in order to lift the M113, cables, rope, straps ( if there strong enough)

I might have more questions later but for now thats it

Thanks,
Mike

The road wheel arms are removed to save weight so no road wheels. A fully laden M113 weighs 11 tons and you're putting this in the back of a 5 ton truck. They removed all non-essential equipment like the crew heater. The engine and transmission are removed too.

Thanks for the reply. Since the the M113 is goign to be all closed up I dont really have to worry about removing things or should I say adding them. In the other post you said something about adding bolts? I'am not sure I understand what you mean by that.

Mike

Take a look at the sides of the hull where the road wheel arms (You refer to them as "axles") are monted to the hull. These were removed and the large hole in the center was visible as well as the smaller holes around the edge where the road wheel arms were.

Mike - sorry for the delay - I usually take the weekend off from the Forum to get modeling projects done.

For modeling purposes, remove the lugs on which the road wheels attach. You do not need to worry about opening the holes where the suspension arms attach - as these are not visible - when on the truck.

One - check your references, most APC G/T also carried the rubber skirts - on the truck. On Page 40 of the Gun Truck book, note that King King's APC hull is sitting on the ground with it's rubber skirts still attached - while waiting for the 5-ton truck to which it was mated.

Two - when they didnt, some carried a flimsy sheet metal plate at the rear, between the cargo bed wall and the APC hull, to block off the area - on the truck.

Three - if you have your Gun Truck reference book handy - look at Page 49 for another option. Note, The Big Kahuna has two rails attached to the lower sides of the APC hull - which would block off the suspension arm holes as well as providing rear tie down points to secure the hull in the cargo bed. If you're going to suspend your APC hull from an M88, it might be more interesting to model this feature - as I would surmise it's easier to weld this to the hull before dropping it into the cargo bed.

The interiors of the APC hulls were pretty much stripped of everything for spare parts for the M113's that were still operational. Basic seats remained, and sometimes the Radio Shelf and radio set - as these trucks carried radios too. Chuck the fuel cell, engine, and transmisison parts.

Gunnie

Thanks Jim, I'll check out the book on what they used for securing the hull on the back. I dont really have to worry about the interior because its going to be all closed up. I want to have the engine sitting on the back of a Mule, or jeep like it was just removed.

I was also wondering what would the M88 use to lift the M113 hull, Cables, Chains??
And what do you mean by-

"If you're going to suspend your APC hull from an M88, it might be more interesting to model this feature - as I would surmise it's easier to weld this to the hull before dropping it into the cargo bed."?

Thanks,
Mike

I meant placing the means of securing the APC Hull to the cargo bed (referring back to the photo) on before putting it into the cargo bed. Imagine that they lifted the APC Hull up, sat it on a couple of sawhorses (kidding - something a bit more substantial, but you get the idea), welded the beams on, and then dropped it into the cargo bed.

Cables or chains? Your preference, but I'd lean towards cables...

Gunnie

Ok thanks Jim, umm, what can I use for the cables? I know the M88 comes with some but there plastic and dont look that easy to bend. Have any other Ideas?

I the diorama, I mentioned having a mule or 2 one with supplies for the guntruck and the other with the engine from the M113. Can a mule carry the enigine to a M113. Last question, do you have any pics. of the engine and other compartments?

Thanks,
Mike

Recent Tamiya model kits (US AFV's) come with white nylon string that works great for cables when painted up. I also go to Michael's Craft Stores and purchase nylon string too.

The Mule can transport around 1000 pounds on the platform - if balanced properly - even on just three wheels. Amazing little truck that was. TM 9-2300-224-20 states that the dry weight of the Chrysler Model 75M V-8 Engine was 688 pounds - I think you could put one on a Mule without anyone having heartburn over it.

Since I have the TM out now - tell me what you're looking for in the way of interior photos or diagrams and I'll get them to you via e-mail...

Gunnie

Take a look at the maintenance shop photos in my motorpool gallery. The M113 engine isn't that big, a Mule could easily tote it around. Those photos are M113A2 engines, but you'll get the idea.

Interesting concept. To answer your question about what to use to lift the M113; when I was in Germany, we just always used two sets of tow cables. Each M113 had one on them. One was strung from right to left across the front lifting eyes and the other set right to left across the back lifting eyes. They would then be pulled together over the center of the M113 and attached to the Recovery vehicles lifting cable. Hope this helps. :-)

Thanks for all the replies guys it really helped. Gunnie I hvae one final question for you I think. As for the diorama it self where were the guntrucks usually built? Do you have any pictures of where they were built at? I was thinking of at a base?

As for the picures of the M113, I was looking for the engine, and other parts of the engine might be removed. The interior is going to be all closed up so I dont really need any pics. of that just yet.

thanks,
Mike

Sure - look in the middle and back of the Gun Truck book - lots of photos of home base. These trucks were built and maintained in maintenance areas where every other truck in the Transportation Group were maintained. Interesting and nothing too elaborate.

Photos of the M113 equipment you're seeking to come later via e-mail...

Gunnie

Ok thanks Jim will do. Do you have my email address? And by the way did you get the guntruck pics. I sent to you?

Mike

Actually - no on both questions Mike - please resend when you get a chance. I saw some pics of yours over on the MSN Vietnam G/T site, though...

Gunnie

Hmm. dono what happened with the pics. I'll try to send them later tonight. My email address is:

[email protected]

Mike

Hey Mike,
Guess who this is, It is your little buddy from Willoughby Hills.
I am gonna look for pics for you of different guntrucks, i am sure i will be able to.
cya l8er

oh yeah,
i forgot to tell you,
I am working on a tank, and the other vette. Will you help me with the painting? just wondering,
Cya