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Tamiya - Why 1/48th scale Armor????
MikeMummey
Joined: February 09, 2005
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 653 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 03:29 AM UTC
I still cannot wait to see the Citeron in 1/48. And with a couple of exceptions(Hetzer,Stg III, scaled down Dragon offerings?) the 1/48 stuff is a rehash of their 1/35 stuff. I know people are already running over each other to be the first ones on the block with the "new" sand bags,barricades and brick wall set. Out here.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 03:41 AM UTC
Mike, before you start disparaging Tamiya's 1/48th scale releases, take a look here:
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/48/tamiya/tamiya.htm
and here - you never know, you might just be surprised....:
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/48/48reviews.htm
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/48/tamiya/tamiya.htm
and here - you never know, you might just be surprised....:
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.com/reviews/48/48reviews.htm
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 06:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I equate this attitude with the people who were spreading the word that the new Italeri M1A2 was a rebox of the DML kit or even worse someone even stated it was the old Esci Abrams kit with A2 parts added in. I guess they assume that since Italeri had reissued the Esci M60A1 and T-55 that the M1A2 had to be based off of the Esci kit.I still cannot wait to see the Citeron in 1/48. And with a couple of exceptions(Hetzer,Stg III, scaled down Dragon offerings?) the 1/48 stuff is a rehash of their 1/35 stuff. I know people are already running over each other to be the first ones on the block with the "new" sand bags,barricades and brick wall set. Out here.
Definitely not a scaled down Dragon Hetzer or an Italeri Hetzer. Is it so hard to believe that a company that released a new tooled Challenger II, Leclerc and a JGSDF LAV (did anyone know what that thing was outside of Japan?) could tool up a Hetzer without having to copy someone else's kit?
If the scale doesn't interest you, fine. There are plenty of kits out there (like the umpteenth Tiger I mid-early-late production model with later early style waffled zimmerit) that don't interest other builders.
The difference is that people who aren't interested in 1/48 scale seem to feel the need to voice their displeasure within inane comments disparaging the company, kits and the scale. To me, it just sounds like a lot of whining and complaining. Reading between the lines I see, "Waa, Tamiya's not making the kits I want." "Boo hoo, where's my retooled halftrack?" "Ha ha, Tamiya's getting their butts kicked in 1/35 and are running to a different scale!"
I imagine there is resentment towards Tamiya for making a 1/48 scale Hetzer and not a 1/35 scale one. If they had a new tooled Hetzer in this scale, the world would rejoice and all the sites would be scrambling to compare it to the Dragon Hetzers.
I took a look at the Jerry can set in the box, it looked pretty good and I may pick up a set someday. It is definitely not a scaled down copy of their original Jerry can set: http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=32510.
The infantry and tank crewmen set looks pretty good, I don't know if the poses are scaled down old figures or not though. Not too familar with with Tamiya German figures in 1/35 scale.
MikeMummey
Joined: February 09, 2005
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 653 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 08:05 AM UTC
Robin, brother you don't get it. Ain't nobody crying or complaining. Everyone just seems to be expressing an opinion or voicing concern about the direction their hobby is taking. The issue is some would rather see them(Tamiya) channeling all that energy and effort into things that are not available or that need to be reworked. Like you said, now we have our umpteenth Tiger, in 1:48 no less. Robin, believe me when I say I got nothing but love for Tamiya. However, I do not need a 1:35 Hetzer from Tamiya, as you pointed out Dragon already makes a couple of nice ones. If you give me a mailing address I will send you the Jerry can set. No charge. Anything to help the cause. And believe me they are nice, if you like them in 1:48. And if we cannot make "inane' comments here, where are we supposed to go? I looked up "forum" and we are doing it. This is where the average tread head model geek is supposed to go to discuss Armor/AFV subjects. I am still campaigning for the Citreon too! Out here.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 12:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...The issue is some would rather see them(Tamiya) channeling all that energy and effort into things that are not available or that need to be reworked...
That in a nutshell is my whole point. What I don't understand is why does Tamiya get flak for making 1/48th scale kits yet Dragon gets accolades for making more models of unique or "one of" vehicles than Tamiya. They've just about covered every Sherman variant as well. As an aside, I'd love to see new tooled M3 Lee/Grant and M3 halftracks come from any quality manufacturer in 1/35 scale.
Quoted Text
No thanks, having that set would make be feel compelled to build a diorama.If you give me a mailing address I will send you the Jerry can set. No charge.
Quoted Text
My objection is directed at the multitude of people who feel the need to post "so what", "big deal" and "hope they fail" messages whenever modelers try to discuss 1/48 scale armor.And if we cannot make "inane' comments here, where are we supposed to go? I looked up "forum" and we are doing it.
I understand the concept of a forum and open and free discussions, but if someone was posting about how the new AFV Tiger compared to the new Dragon Tiger and every other post was "who cares", "as if we need another Tiger", etc. it gets rather old after the first couple of threads.
Here's a Citroen 11BL in 1/35, not too different from a CV: http://www.greatmodels.com/cgi/display.cgi?item_num=des35065
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
Armorama: 2,447 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 12:53 PM UTC
Yo ho ho!
Without reading through the many posts, my two Yens:
Why not? In model railroading, O gauge is 1/48 (1/43 for our English friends). Zillions of detail parts for the trains, after all, a model railroad is one big interactive diorama.
There are other viable exact scales for mixing & matching military modeling with railroading, HO, OO, "Number One Gauge". Each sacrifice size, either too big for all but a vignette, or small unto Braille-Scale.
1/48 = size, space, continuity of scale, easy of converting scale to prototype scale, mixing-n-matching, quarterscale is great!
I'm probably not the first but let me offer quarterscalearmor
It is great to be able to set AFVs and aircraft together; cottages are being produced plus figures and accessory sets.
IMHO, one can not ask for a better scale for size and detail. It is easily convertible to metric and standard.
We 1/48thers have been lobbying for new kits for some time now. A golden era is upon us!
Without reading through the many posts, my two Yens:
Why not? In model railroading, O gauge is 1/48 (1/43 for our English friends). Zillions of detail parts for the trains, after all, a model railroad is one big interactive diorama.
There are other viable exact scales for mixing & matching military modeling with railroading, HO, OO, "Number One Gauge". Each sacrifice size, either too big for all but a vignette, or small unto Braille-Scale.1/48 = size, space, continuity of scale, easy of converting scale to prototype scale, mixing-n-matching, quarterscale is great!
I'm probably not the first but let me offer quarterscalearmor
It is great to be able to set AFVs and aircraft together; cottages are being produced plus figures and accessory sets.
IMHO, one can not ask for a better scale for size and detail. It is easily convertible to metric and standard.
We 1/48thers have been lobbying for new kits for some time now. A golden era is upon us! 
MikeMummey
Joined: February 09, 2005
KitMaker: 672 posts
Armorama: 653 posts
Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 04:52 AM UTC
Howdy Fred. a.k.a. JPTRR. Tried opening the private mail but nothing is there. Cyber Spooks maybe ate it. Arr begaarrr! You island happy dude. You and others are just the customers that Tamiya is looking for. I say "why not", but do not abandon those of us who have been buying your stuff in 1/35 for many years. And if we the cusrtomer do not express our desires or displeasure then they will not know. I know for a fact that the major manufacturers monitor this and other sites to keep their finger on the pulse of the model geek community. The squeaky wheel gets the grease bro. You have sold me. Now I have to go to my Dads house and get my Lionel stuff from the shed and set up my "Ost Front" layout . I did it in the 70's with Bandai but can now upgrade to Tamiya 1/48. I know that there are a couple of scratch built armored cars with Pz IV turrets in one of the boxes. If I can only find my Partisans so that there can once again be reprisals, I will be set. For you and others I say "Long Live the Quarter Scale Golden Era! ". Please contact me via PM. It is in my profile. Out here.
Pak_40
Joined: August 12, 2003
KitMaker: 392 posts
Armorama: 281 posts
Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 - 09:41 AM UTC
Hi,
In my not so humble opinion, the other plastic manufacturers in 1/35th are outdoing and in many ways have surpassed Tamiya in both designing and types of military and non-military modeling.
Some of the reviews I have read on their 1/48th kits have not been too flattering, I guess Tamiya is not the company they "supposedly" used to be.
I myself cannot believe that some are sad that Tamiya is not doing as well as they used too. I see other plastic model makers doing better than Tamiya ever did. One example is, Dragon with their new 3-in-1. Another is, AFV Club German stuff.
sorry guys, I call them as I see them, Chris
In my not so humble opinion, the other plastic manufacturers in 1/35th are outdoing and in many ways have surpassed Tamiya in both designing and types of military and non-military modeling.
Some of the reviews I have read on their 1/48th kits have not been too flattering, I guess Tamiya is not the company they "supposedly" used to be.
I myself cannot believe that some are sad that Tamiya is not doing as well as they used too. I see other plastic model makers doing better than Tamiya ever did. One example is, Dragon with their new 3-in-1. Another is, AFV Club German stuff.
sorry guys, I call them as I see them, Chris
koschrei
Joined: September 21, 2004
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 134 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 08:03 PM UTC
The lure of 1/48 is the compactness of the individual models combined with potential for fine detail.
I offer this image as an example (with apoligies for the medeocre quality - I am still learning the photography side of modeling).
Konrad
I offer this image as an example (with apoligies for the medeocre quality - I am still learning the photography side of modeling).
Konrad
allycat
Joined: October 03, 2004
KitMaker: 942 posts
Armorama: 571 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 09:04 PM UTC
Salticid,
If it ever happens and there's no more 1/35 Tamiya, would Trumpeter keep it's kits at such a low cost or would they start to creep up in price because of a bigger slice of the market. Another thing just entered my head. If Tamiya stopped 1/35, would they sell their old moulds on? If they did, modellers wouldn't loose out on any Tamiya kits, they'd just be under a different (and hopefully cheaper) name.
Tom
If it ever happens and there's no more 1/35 Tamiya, would Trumpeter keep it's kits at such a low cost or would they start to creep up in price because of a bigger slice of the market. Another thing just entered my head. If Tamiya stopped 1/35, would they sell their old moulds on? If they did, modellers wouldn't loose out on any Tamiya kits, they'd just be under a different (and hopefully cheaper) name.
Tom
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 - 10:30 PM UTC
This 'Tamiya' debate is frankly becoming a touch tedious, let me just put it into its correct perspective...
1) The sucess of DML has been principally because they used their 12" 'Action Figures' as a means of getting financial 'seeding' which they then invested into new technology and mouldings - that's why they are releasing in the way they are...
2) Labor Costs. DML and Trumpeter have lower costs across the board. Why do you think that companies such as Revell (USA) have been forced to relocate. No, they aren't on a 'level' playing field but other companies could go the same way if they wished.
3) When people blithely talk about 'We want this model or we want this series of vehicles' , they seem to have little conception of what injection moulding costs. A new kit, in the U.S or Europe, costs many thousands of dollars to tool, research and finally produce. At the present moment, the only financially viable place to do this is in China...
4) The company policy of Tamiya is to have a high emphasis on R/C. A few years ago it was on 1/35th armor. They go where the money is, like any sensible operation...
5) Yes, 1/48th may be seen as a gamble, now i'm not so sure. The back-up it's receiving fom the AM people is impressive and WILL encourage Tamiya to continue with new releases. The only problem with this is the hidebound attitude of ourselves, the modellers. Sometimes the posts here (and other sites) look like the pompous ramblings one sees on the letter pages of the principal modelling magazines... Would it really hurt to give 1/48th a chance?
6) If Tamiya become 'trend-setters' with 1/48th, good. The dominance in 1/35th is now clearly with DML so what's the problem?..Jim
1) The sucess of DML has been principally because they used their 12" 'Action Figures' as a means of getting financial 'seeding' which they then invested into new technology and mouldings - that's why they are releasing in the way they are...
2) Labor Costs. DML and Trumpeter have lower costs across the board. Why do you think that companies such as Revell (USA) have been forced to relocate. No, they aren't on a 'level' playing field but other companies could go the same way if they wished.
3) When people blithely talk about 'We want this model or we want this series of vehicles' , they seem to have little conception of what injection moulding costs. A new kit, in the U.S or Europe, costs many thousands of dollars to tool, research and finally produce. At the present moment, the only financially viable place to do this is in China...
4) The company policy of Tamiya is to have a high emphasis on R/C. A few years ago it was on 1/35th armor. They go where the money is, like any sensible operation...
5) Yes, 1/48th may be seen as a gamble, now i'm not so sure. The back-up it's receiving fom the AM people is impressive and WILL encourage Tamiya to continue with new releases. The only problem with this is the hidebound attitude of ourselves, the modellers. Sometimes the posts here (and other sites) look like the pompous ramblings one sees on the letter pages of the principal modelling magazines... Would it really hurt to give 1/48th a chance?
6) If Tamiya become 'trend-setters' with 1/48th, good. The dominance in 1/35th is now clearly with DML so what's the problem?..Jim
koschrei
Joined: September 21, 2004
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 134 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 05, 2005 - 07:29 AM UTC
Jim:
Perhaps a bit dated, but I'll say it any way - Right-on man.
BTW, you know who I saw looking at and buying the 1/48 kits at TamiyaCon last month - kids.
We need younger modelers, and if they like'em I can't think of a better recommendation for the new 1/48 line.
Konrad
Perhaps a bit dated, but I'll say it any way - Right-on man.
BTW, you know who I saw looking at and buying the 1/48 kits at TamiyaCon last month - kids.
We need younger modelers, and if they like'em I can't think of a better recommendation for the new 1/48 line.
Konrad
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 02:46 AM UTC
I don't really think that anyone is bashing Tamiya, it's just seems that this is a quick way to get more money, you retool, into a different scale and resale the same old kits, get out there and really do some off the wall stuff that hasn't been done before. Ok, now everyone goes out and gets the 1/48 stuff and after the first one or two contests or shows were people didn't have 100% accurate kits, the aftermarket kicks into full effect. Then when you think you have every kit and accessory and your basement is about to burst at its seems along comes another scale and the vicious cycle starts over.
My 4 Cents
Andy
My 4 Cents
Andy
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 07, 2005 - 10:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
you retool, into a different scale and resale the same old kits,
This, i'm afraid, is a total misconception. I had the wrong end of the stick at the beginning as wel.
Let me put it clearly All theTamiya 1/48th kits are NEW toolings - not 'pantographed' versions of their (aging) 1/35th range... Jim
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 11:01 AM UTC
...with the possible exception to your rule being the infantry and armor figure set from Tamiya. These are definitly pantograph down-scales of the 1/35 originals.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 19, 2005 - 06:54 PM UTC
I understand the desire to have modern vehicles in 1/48th scale, however Tamiya have only just started the range. WWII continues to be the biggest seller so therefore they go here the money is. I agree totally with Jeffry on this particularly a Humvee in 1/48th although since time immemorial, Aircraft modelers have been complaining about the lack of Airfield vehicles and equipment in plastic. Or are aviation modellers not so interested in dioramas?...Jim 
Biggles2
Joined: January 01, 2004
KitMaker: 7,600 posts
Armorama: 6,110 posts
Posted: Friday, May 20, 2005 - 09:10 AM UTC
The old Bandai/Fuman 1/48 Opal Blitz and Maultier are still kicking around on ebay ocaisonally, and are still a fairly decent basis for conversions.
Sherman_67
Joined: May 08, 2005
KitMaker: 265 posts
Armorama: 203 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 01:09 AM UTC
truly i think that it was a good idea by tamiya to make 48th scale armor for beginners who are not ready to step up to 35th scale like me i'm a beginner
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 04:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
truly i think that it was a good idea by tamiya to make 48th scale armor for beginners who are not ready to step up to 35th scale like me i'm a beginner
Hmm, not so sure they ARE kits for beginners at all. I would still suggest 1/35th for someone starting out....Jim
tankysgal1
Joined: January 28, 2004
KitMaker: 1,430 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 05:42 AM UTC
Tamiya 1/48th kits for beginners...hummmm...I think that is a two fold thing there. I think that some of the kits are in fact simple enough for the beginner..(like me)..I built both the Kettenkraftrad w/ infantry cart and Goliath Demolition Machine and the Kubelwagen without any problems at all, and obtained fairly good results. However, the Tiger Early I that i am currently working on..is a bit more of a challenge. It has lots of parts, and for a beginner that has never completed a tank before, the tiny parts not knowing a lot about what they are are where they go, is difficult to work with. I have to agree with James that maybe 1/35th scale Tiger would have been a better learning experience first.
But i still love 1/48th scale.
But i still love 1/48th scale.
Marlowe
Joined: June 12, 2005
KitMaker: 289 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 11:47 AM UTC
I thought I would add my opinion to this post and expand upon it. I am a 1/48 scale armour modeller and that is all I model. I started in the early '70s with Aurora and then continued with Bandai. Twenty years ago I purchased some 1/35 scale kits which I haven't finished--not interested--1/35 is too big and clumsy for my tastes. If there were no 1/48 scale kits I would not be making models. Getting rid of 1/48 will not create more 1/35 scale customers, it means fewer customers visiting their local hobby shops. Now for the main point--the "baby boom" generation of Japan is starting to retire. This group has been described as hobby-obsessed. Apparently, this concerns their wives who do not want models all over the house gathering dust. 1/48 is being marketed as a desirable scale as it is large enough to provide the detail modellers want and small enough to be kept out of the way. 1/48 has been reported as selling well in Japan. Therefore, this demographic group will keep 1/48 alive and thriving. Skybow's kits look so well-detailed that you can be satisfied with a minimal amount of AM for them which means 1/48 can meet your detail requirements at reasonable cost. Lastly, and most importantly, I have been reading comments by people about how fun it was to build the new Tamiya kits. These kits can be put together in an evening if you want. No need to labour over one kit for months--You can actually have fun building models--and if you aren't having fun, what is the point?
Glenn
Glenn
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
KitMaker: 2,192 posts
Armorama: 1,615 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This 'Tamiya' debate is frankly becoming a touch tedious, let me just put it into its correct perspective...
1) The sucess of DML has been principally because they used their 12" 'Action Figures' as a means of getting financial 'seeding' which they then invested into new technology and mouldings - that's why they are releasing in the way they are...
2) Labor Costs. DML and Trumpeter have lower costs across the board. Why do you think that companies such as Revell (USA) have been forced to relocate. No, they aren't on a 'level' playing field but other companies could go the same way if they wished.
3) When people blithely talk about 'We want this model or we want this series of vehicles' , they seem to have little conception of what injection moulding costs. A new kit, in the U.S or Europe, costs many thousands of dollars to tool, research and finally produce. At the present moment, the only financially viable place to do this is in China...
4) The company policy of Tamiya is to have a high emphasis on R/C. A few years ago it was on 1/35th armor. They go where the money is, like any sensible operation...
5) Yes, 1/48th may be seen as a gamble, now i'm not so sure. The back-up it's receiving fom the AM people is impressive and WILL encourage Tamiya to continue with new releases. The only problem with this is the hidebound attitude of ourselves, the modellers. Sometimes the posts here (and other sites) look like the pompous ramblings one sees on the letter pages of the principal modelling magazines... Would it really hurt to give 1/48th a chance?
6) If Tamiya become 'trend-setters' with 1/48th, good. The dominance in 1/35th is now clearly with DML so what's the problem?..Jim
As usual Jim, you've hit the nail on the head! the only thing I would add is this. OK Tamiya seem to have upset a few people, but it's worth remembering that they still make a good range of 1/35th kits of subjects that still, after all these years, aren't obtainable elsewhere. How many kits of 25Pdr Field Guns & Quads are there? Or US halftracks? LRDG Chevys? You see what I mean? OK they aren't the bees knees any more, so what? You can see from these pages that they can still make the basis of a good model. If you don't like what they're doing, buy something else. What we should be concerned about if anything with any of the manufacturers is that the armour kits seem to be subsidised by other interests, so long term how long can we reasonably expect them to keep making for a comparitively small market, that's full of competition?
I don't have any troubles with a manufacturer diversifying into other scales, I can't make kits as fast as Dragon produce them anyway! I won't be buying any 1/48th scale kits because I've got too much invested in 1/35th. Like I don't buy 1/72nd because although there are some nice kits out there now (not the case when I started 30 mumble mumble years ago!) IMHO they just don't have what I call "display presence". But I'd fight for the rights of others to buy them if they want.
Now could we have an embargo of any more posts about liking/not liking other scales!!?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 07:24 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Now could we have an embargo of any more posts about liking/not liking other scales!!?
Hehehe... I couldn't agree more. Can we also have a prohibition on the silly 'Honey, I shrunk the kits...' debate at the same time?
I'm definitely now in the 'Totally Convinced by 1/48th Camp' although I am holding off a bit until the 1/35th scale 'plastic mountain' reduces a bit... Cuiously enough it's those new Citreons from Tamiya that look most attractive at he moment..Jim
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