Armorama :: Muzzle Ring

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Muzzle Ring

Tarok

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 01:23 AM UTC

I refer specifically to British/Commonwealth WW2 AT Artillery...

What is the purpose of a muzzle ring on AT artillery? Is this a synonym for a muzzle weight?

Is a muzzle ring factory fitted or is it afixed by crew depending on the combat conditions? Is it possible for one gun of say Mk "X" to be fitted with one and another gun also of Mk "X" not to be fitted with one?

husky1943

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 01:43 AM UTC

Ciao Tarok,
Do you refer to the "gun ring?" You know, the ring that was laid on the ground and when the wheels were placed in it, it allowed the muzzle to be swung more easily in correcting/changing fire direction. If not, I'm not sure what it is. But, I will continue to look.
Ciao for now
Rob

Tarok

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:01 AM UTC

Hi Rob

Perhaps I have called it the wrong term... it may be called a collar?

I refer to the ring around the front of the muzzle as seen in this picture of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders manning a 6-pnd A/T gun (I think it's a Mk II gun)

This photo of a AT gun crew in action on outskirts of Torre Annunziata just short of Naples also seems to show a muzzle ring.

The problem I have is that some of my references for the 6pdr MkII appear to show the collar/ring/weight (whatever) and others don't. The Mk IV has the muzzle brake, so I guess for that the question is irrelevant...

Rudi

husky1943

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:07 AM UTC

Ciao Rudi,
Okay, I get what you mean. I'm no expert, but I believe it is just a reinforcing collar for when the gun uses hotter shot. It did the basic job of a muzzle brake; just not as well. Other than that, you got me.
Ciao for now
Rob

rebelsoldier

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 03:05 AM UTC

MUZZLE BAND: Also known as a muzzle ring. In field and siege howitzers and mortars, a muzzle band took the place of the muzzle swell.

http://www.civilwarartillery.com/glossary/glossaryGZ.htm

reb

husky1943

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 05:13 AM UTC

Ciao Derek,
Okay, makes perfect sense. I hate to guess at answers, but I had to give it a try. Also, thanks for telling what that "thing" was called. Lastly, I meant that the collar acted like a muzzle brake in that it allowed for hotter shot to be used. Didn't a muzzle brake allow for hotter shot by reducing the recoil so that the gun wouldn't break from the recoil of using hotter shot?
An expert, I ain't!! Thanks for the insight.
Ciao for now
Rob

Tarok

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 09:15 AM UTC

Thanks for all the great info guys.

My next question regarding the 6Pdr AT gun is again about the barrels. The Mk II was the 43 calibres length production model, while the Mk III was the tank version "with lugs to suit a tank turret".

Stupid question, but where were these lugs situated? Would this be near the end where the barrel was joined to the turret? Forgive me *whince* I know I'm not using all the right terminology here...

Rudi

18Bravo

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:29 PM UTC

Muzzle rings are also used to eliminate, well, muzzle ring. I'm familiar with a few weapons (though not this one in particular) which have rubber or metal rings on the muzzle to dampen the ringing sound made when a round exits. I'm not sure why this is necssary, as the boom and dust cloud pretty much give you away, but it is so.

KurtLaughlin

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 02:48 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Muzzle rings are also used to eliminate, well, muzzle ring. I'm familiar with a few weapons (though not this one in particular) which have rubber or metal rings on the muzzle to dampen the ringing sound made when a round exits. I'm not sure why this is necssary, as the boom and dust cloud pretty much give you away, but it is so.

I think a ring (noise) would indicate an undesirable match between the forcing frequencies of firing and the natural frequency of the barrel, which would be bad.

KL

tankmodeler

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WWW

Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 05:30 PM UTC

Quoted Text

I think a ring (noise) would indicate an undesirable match between the forcing frequencies of firing and the natural frequency of the barrel, which would be bad.

KL

And to complete, it would be bad because tf the gun tended to fire and cause barrel ressonance, then fatigue could set in sooner and the gun might burst before its time. As Kurt says, Bad.

DaveCox

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 06:24 PM UTC

Quoted Text

My next question regarding the 6Pdr AT gun is again about the barrels. The Mk II was the 43 calibres length production model, while the Mk III was the tank version "with lugs to suit a tank turret".

Stupid question, but where were these lugs situated? Would this be near the end where the barrel was joined to the turret? Forgive me *whince* I know I'm not using all the right terminology here...

Rudi

These lugs were placed near the breech end of the barrel, at the point of balance. This was so that the gun would need less effort to elevate & depress. The proper name for these 'lugs'; is "trunnions".

KurtLaughlin

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Posted: Saturday, May 21, 2005 - 06:27 PM UTC

Quoted Text

And to complete, it would be bad because tf the gun tended to fire and cause barrel ressonance, then fatigue could set in sooner and the gun might burst before its time. As Kurt says, Bad.

Resonance (forcing frequency = natural frequency) would be very bad. The gun would probably come apart before fatigue even started.

Speaking of resonance, there was some tank who's hull vibrated at ~1 to 3 Hz when going over the washboard track. The tank could handle it, but the natural frequency of the human body is supposed to be in that range. At first you get ill, then if you stay in it long enough your organs start ripping loose from their attachments. Ecch.

KL

husky1943

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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 02:20 AM UTC

Ciao everyone,
That is one of the many reasons that I love this place. I had no idea of what we were talking about and now I am learning all sorts of things. Cool!
Ciao for now
Rob

Tarok

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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 08:15 AM UTC

Derek,

These differences... you mean within the same version there were these differences? Was this simply due to the guns being manufactured in different factories? Or resource shortages?

Thanks for the pics...

Rudi

18Bravo

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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 09:55 AM UTC

The bulge on the shield is to better accomodate the travel of the firing pedal.

Tarok

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Posted: Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 06:25 PM UTC

Thanks everyone for the great info...

Are there any other major differences between the Mk II and IV that I sould know about? Anyone got any pics of a Mk II?

Rudi

Tarok

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Posted: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 - 03:05 AM UTC

Derek, that really does look great.

You made all the PE bits by hand?

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