Curious as to what aftermarket products are available for the Italeri 1/35 M109A6 Paladin. I'm aware of the Eduard photoetch set, but was curious if there are anything else out there, such as turned metal barrels, resin tracks, resin interior or external stores sets, etc?
Thinking of resin tracks, does the Paladin share the same tracks as any other armored vehicles that could be used as replacement aftermarket tracks?

There is a metal barrel by Barrel Depot , AFV Club (ex-Skybow) has an individual link track set as well. Also, M109 tracks are not shared/used by any other AFV out there, they are specific for the M109 series vehicles.



Don't know of any other sets out there. It really doesn't need much to add to it. It is a pretty accurate model OOB. As to stowage, you could use the new Tamiya Modern US Military Equipment Set. Basically the personal gear, tents, fuel/water cans are all the same as you would see on a tank, Bradley, M113, etc. The ammo cans are the same for fuzes as .50 cal. CIPs are/were used on M109A6s in OIF as well.

The tracks on the Paladin will work with any M109 series vehicles, but only those. Warriors make a hull interior for the series, but the seats are incorrect for current version-they need to be stowage bins for NBC gear. AFV Club makes aftermarket projos and powder containers, both green and white bag. Royal Models makes a PE set that I used for a lot of my first Paladin. I believe it was the Eduard set that was specific to the A6. There is also a resin engine available for all marks.
There is a turned aluminum barrel, but it will not be quite right for theA6. The bore evacuator is a bit different.
You can use SOME of the Royal Models turret interior, but not much. Most goes unseen anyway.
At a bare minimum to fix the A6-remove oxbow flotation cover on the upper hull, correct the hull seats, correct rear stowage boxes, armored driver's hatch cover, correct bore evacuator, and speed counter, which is missing from the kit.

CMK also made an engine/tranny for the 109 series. Not a stand alone engine, but one that dropped in from the underside and gave some detail inside.

OK I know I'm nit-picking here but AFAIK the Paladin uses different tracks than the previous variants. If you compare the links in Skybow's set to the picture below, you'll see that the guiding tooth has been moved forward and that there's only one bolt instead of 2. The rubber pad's shape on the other side is also slightly different.....But I'm probably pushing it a bit far


Frenchy

You are right, Paladins use sligthly different tracks from all earlier M109 vehicles, so AFV Club/Skybow tracks are not 100% accurate. But they are close enough for most and Italeri vinyl tracks are also of the earlier M109 type anyway.





Are you sure there are any noticable differences between bore evacuator in M109A6 and earlier variants? I couldn't spot any... And Barel Depot make aluminum barrel that is dedicated for Paladin, but it is not that great. It is just metal copy of Italeri part and repeats the Italeri error (missing collar on the barrel near the mantlet) and is rather poorly detailed. Also the muzzle brake is not correctly detailed inside.

Pawel

That's not nit-picking, that's a good call. I went back and looked at my photos of Paladins from Ft. Sill and they have the same track. Funny that I never noticed it. However, our A5's did not mount spare track, but in looking closely at the photos, it appears they may have the same kind of track, so it may be a universal upgrade. I know that Diehl makes Track Type 570 P family track for Leopard II, Leclerc, Challenger 2, M1, and M60, but the guide horn is centered. No mention whether they do this new PAladin track. I can only guess that the newer design reduces vibration and thus wear. The top run of track on the M109 series will actually bow in far enough to make deep gouges in the aluminum hull.

linkname

Quite. At least in these:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eighteenbravo2003/detail?.dir=5bf2&.dnm=b0af.jpg

I have noticed that A6's appear to be made in different batches. Paladins at Fort Sill are consistently different from the ones at Ft. Hood in several areas,
including, but not limited to:
location of latches on side turret hatch
shape/locations of non slip panels
absence/presence of handles on replenisher housings

VLS has interior sets for the M109 by Italeri. Not sure if the interiors are the same. They are under the TRAZ line of products. Hope this helps.
Recon

You are right! I just checked all my Paladin photos and indeed the fume extractor is like the one on your photo on all!
I don't know what I was looking at before, but it was not a Paladin photo...

But this only means that Italeri part is inaccurate and Barel Depot barrel is wrong as well...

Pawel

Thank you for your responses, the more detail and nitpicky, the better, it helps me build a more comprehensive shopping list for aftermarket sets and more importantly, a better model. I'm a rivet counter myself, but mostly aircraft. This will be my first armor model in over ten years, and is being built for my nextdoor neighbor who just returned from Iraq. I plan a diorama setting of him and his crew (reserve out of Ft. Lewis, WA) mulling around their Paladin.

Come to think of it, since there is an in-progress critique forum, once I've got all of my parts together, I'd appreciate all of your recomendations, advice, and helpful hints once I've gotten started in the next few months (yes, I'm slow to research, and slow to build). Are there any reference book recommendations?

Allied Command Productions does a nice reference for the Paladin in their Military Vehicle Workshop Series.

To make it clear though. The only AM set specifically for the M109A6 Paladin is the PE set by Eduard. All the other above sets are made for earlier versions of the M109 series. The interior and engine sets are for an M109A2, very different than the Paladin. They are good bases to start from, but not Paladin sets. Same for the track, Paladin track are slightly different, as noted above, but the AFV Club track are close and will look much better than the kit tracks. Barrel Depot barrel is for an M109A5, slightly different bore evac than the A6, but the kit barrel is not totally correct either. As stated, the above sets are good bases to start from for a super-detailed Paladin, but by simply combining them with the kit, you will not have an accurate M109A6 Paldin, but a Franken-Howitzer of all different versions combined on one platform.

One big rivet to remove on the Paladin hull is the boomerang shaped object just forward of the turret opening. It was part of the swim barrier system and was deleted on vehicles beginning with the M109A1.

It would be a real mess to remove and try to patch up the resulting hole so most people leave it there. Plus the turret tends to overhang it for the most part and partially obscure it.

Good luck on your project for your friend.

To make it clear , the Barel Depot barrel I wrote about IS specifically for M109A6 Paladin kit. The set is BD35013 M109A6 Paladin M284 155mm Howitzer barrel.


But as I wrote above it is a copy of kit barrel and is inaccurate for Paladin.

By the way, some M109A5 had the same bore evac (type 11580776) as M109A6.

Pawel

I mentioned this above, and MOSTpeople leave it. However, once you're aware of the problem, it will eat away at until you fix it. I've done about ten of these, starting with the A1s, so I've sort of gotten it down to a science.
Start by turning the top hull piece upside and filling it with a liberal dose of super glue. Spray with accelerator.
Now using a barrel shaped steel cutter on a Dremel, grind away as much of the barrier shroud as possible. Finally, finish it up with a piece of 400 wet/dry paper spray mounted to a small chunk of acrylic. The result should look like this:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eighteenbravo2003/detail?.dir=5bf2&.dnm=987d.jpg&.src=ph

Also notice the armored covers for the driver's hatches. They're an easy addition, and I have not seen any Paladins without them.

What Gino said about the fixes is true, however, bear this in mind: I worked on these for a few years and NEVER noticed the difference in the tracks. Pavel did not notice the bore evacuator difference. While I am on medication for AMS, I wiould say that these things are not as much cause for alarm as are the missing items.
The ring on the barrel Pavel spoke of is a biggie. Use a sliver of Evergreen tubing and your favorite source of bolts to fix:

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eighteenbravo2003/detail?.dir=5bf2&.dnm=61c9.jpg&.src=ph

Notice the extra detail on the recuperator housing as well.
Another easy fix are the rear stowage boxes. Again, depending upon your level of AMS, you may not care to spend any time on this, as with the spades up, and with the turret overhang, you can't really see it. But if you're like me, you know it's there, (and your friend will know) so...

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eighteenbravo2003/detail?.dir=5bf2&.dnm=1839.jpg&.src=ph

I added the auxiliary door locks missing on all of the Italeri kits.
Finally, the speed counter, or chronograph, which measures the muzzle velocity of the projo. I chose to leave it off of the other model as they're taken off in the motor pool, which is what that model portrays.

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/eighteenbravo2003/detail?.dir=5bf2&.dnm=e0a1.jpg&.src=ph

You'll see that the handles are missing from the replenisher housing on this model. That seems to be a feature unique to Fort Sill Paladins, as they're still present on the ones at Carson and Hood. Also you can see a faint line in the upper left of the photo where I've used wet/dry sandpaper to replicate the non slip panels.
I hope these photos help you somewhat.

18Bravo,
Your call sign should be 13Bravo with the great jobs you did on the howitzers. Great looking Paladins. I have built quite a few too. Even scratched up one from the old Italeri M109A2/A3 kit, before the M109A6 kit was out, you can see it in my gallery here. Good job on yours.

Thanks. In fact 13 Bravo is one of three combat MOS's of mine. 18 Bravo remains my primary, and will for quite some time.

Scratchbuilding/kitbashing isn't a problem, so long as I've got a good source to model from. I've learned nothing is truly "difficult" in model building, only time-consuming and neuroses generating.

Horrido:

I have some Paladin photos from OIF1, but I am not sure how helpful they would be. They are just general photos (not close-ups) and they show 3rd ID markings and lots of stowage, and general wear and tear of a combat environment. I think all of my shots are vehicles on the move. You can PM me if you are interested.

A good source is Prime Portal

http://www.primeportal.net/

which has shots of the Paladin. Someone might have mentioned this site already...

So, you live in WA? I am from Gresham, OR which is outside of Portland. Do you go to the shows? I have been to the Seattle show for the last four years, ever since I moved here. I also go to the Oregon show in McMinnville. Maybe we have bumped into each other?

That is very cool that you are making your neighbor's vehicle for him. I have just completed an Abrams for a Sgt I know that fought in OIF1. It was a lot of work, but it was very fun since I knew that he would appreciate it, and because it was a challenge to try and replicate his exact vehicle. I think you will have a similar experience since it sounds like you want to get it right.

Good luck. Hopefully he was able to give you some photos.

Bob

I'll see what my friend has to offer, then get back to you if he comes up short. It turns out his unit was sent over without their guns, so I guess I'll be modelling one out on exercises. lol He's currently policing photos and calling crewmates he knows who have albums.

Yep, already have the M109A6 walkaround bookmarked, but thank you, certainly. I keep looking for good interior pics, if there are any available.

Been to the McMinnville show I think in 2001, and Seattle the past two years. I'm sure we've at least seen each other in passing. Are you a member of the Oregon Historical Modelers Society?

Being a student and not having much storage space, I build for veterans I run across to keep my skills up. I enjoy it because it gives me a chance to build subjects and use resources not available to the public market. Biggest hassle is finding a source to make quality custom decals or dry transfers. lol

Thank you for your assistance, I look forward to meeting you at McMinnville this year.

Evan

Evan:

No, I'm not a member of the local club. I go to the hobby shop in Portland that they use for meetings, though. I have not seriously considered joining since I have so many other things going.

Good luck with the project and let me know if you do not get any photos. I'll look for you at the Oregon show in Sept. My Abrams won't be there though, since by then I'll have given it up.

Bob

I still have some A6 interior photos stashed away somewhere, if you don't mind a picture of a picture. In the meantime, here are a few more detail shots.

This shows the left front turret access panel, which needs to have the raised outline removed, rescribed, with added bolt detail:

Also visible is the cast surface on the Pan-Tel cover, and weld seams along top edge of the hull.

This shows the corrected bore evacuator:
This is the turret basket locking pin wire: (dummy cord)

The locking mechanism on the TC hatch, with barely visible MG mount detail:

Left side turret door latch with rubber stop. Note similar treatment at top of photo on top hatch, which was poorly replicated on the kit:

Alternate location for the same latch. Black knobs are made from #20 lead shot:

Here's the rear door lock, missing from the kit, and one of the corrected stowage boxes:

The left front hull, showing added detail on final drive housing, and gun crutch locking pin wires:

And the right front. I don't know what that lug is above the brush guard, but I modeled it anyway:

And finally, missing spade detail. You can also see where the padlock for the rear door goes. (different from the rear door locking bar)

One more correction-on the hull front, there's a circular plate. There's a corresponding notch on the gun crutch to accomodate it. Remove the plate, and fill in the notch on the gun crutch. Paladins don't have this feature.