Yes another Tiger my 12th one in about a year :-) :-)
Cheers karl
I dont know if i should change the mud colour to a darker brown or leave it?
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Another Tiger
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 03:00 AM UTC
Yes another Tiger my 12th one in about a year :-) :-)
Cheers karl
I dont know if i should change the mud colour to a darker brown or leave it?
Phil73805
Joined: April 19, 2005
KitMaker: 59 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 03:17 AM UTC
Hi Karl, very nice indeed! I know you posted to ask a question but I have one or two for you. The pictures show a gritty finish to the mud, how did you do that, how did you apply it and how are you going to match it up with the roadwheels and tracks?
While I'm at it, how do you paint German tracks? (and how long is a piece of string, I know sorry but I need advice) I'm told by those that know that German tracks were made from Magnesium and therefore shouldn't have a shiny metal finish on the raised parts but in film footage of Stug III Ausf A/B's the sun shines off the tracks as they pass the camera?
As for the colour of the mud, it seems a little pink/red to me but what do I know, I'm only on my second AFV kit and I have a lot to learn.
By the way if I wanted to post some pictures for advice do I need to have my own webspace to do it or does Armorama have the space for a few per person?
Phil
While I'm at it, how do you paint German tracks? (and how long is a piece of string, I know sorry but I need advice) I'm told by those that know that German tracks were made from Magnesium and therefore shouldn't have a shiny metal finish on the raised parts but in film footage of Stug III Ausf A/B's the sun shines off the tracks as they pass the camera?
As for the colour of the mud, it seems a little pink/red to me but what do I know, I'm only on my second AFV kit and I have a lot to learn.
By the way if I wanted to post some pictures for advice do I need to have my own webspace to do it or does Armorama have the space for a few per person?
Phil
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:25 AM UTC
Hi Phil reguarding your question about space for your pictures you have some gallery space that you can upload you photos to.when you have uploaded right click on the picture and go to properties and copy +paste in between the image file found top right of your page,making sure you delete http://put.url.here/image.file and just paste in between the image brackets.
as for tracks theres lots of ways to paint them.i paint mine matallic grey mixed with black.then thin down some mig powders i use dark mud,then brush all over the tracks getting in all the links,then dry off with a hair dryer.after that i use a silver pencil to add where the links have had conntact with the ground.
Your right about the mud i does look pinky,so i shall paint it again.
cheers phil if you get stuck posting your images give me a shout.
karl
as for tracks theres lots of ways to paint them.i paint mine matallic grey mixed with black.then thin down some mig powders i use dark mud,then brush all over the tracks getting in all the links,then dry off with a hair dryer.after that i use a silver pencil to add where the links have had conntact with the ground.
Your right about the mud i does look pinky,so i shall paint it again.
cheers phil if you get stuck posting your images give me a shout.
karl
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:39 AM UTC
Looks good Karl, but then after 11 you should be able to do this in the dark.. :-) . The color of the mud has already been mentioned, but I'm curious as to the number of crosses... 
I have not seen any photo's of Tigers with Crosses on the turret, especialy two next to each other?
Good luck with the tracks, are they indie's?
Cheers
Henk
I have not seen any photo's of Tigers with Crosses on the turret, especialy two next to each other?Good luck with the tracks, are they indie's?
Cheers
Henk
Hawkeye
Joined: March 29, 2002
KitMaker: 701 posts
Armorama: 640 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:42 AM UTC
Very nice build Karl, look forward to seeing the completed Tiger.
As to your question about mud, i would say it depends on what time of year you are setting your Tiger in. If it is early spring/late autumn, then you need the mud to look darker, and fresh. If it is in the summer months then it should look more like a fine coat of dust, or even a heavier coat if it has been in use for some time.
As to teh question about the tracks, all the film/pictures i have seen do show the raised part of the tracks to be a much lighter colour than the rest. Even what we know as mild steel will "shine" up when it comes into contact with an abrasive surface......so i would say you should paint the raised sections in a steel colour. As for the rest? Again it depends on what time of year it is. If it is a timewhen there was a heavy coating of mud, you need to take that into account. If, say, the tank was in use at Kharkov in early 43, and then again at Kursk later that year. The tracks would be considerable worn and would accumulate a heavy coating of dust and dirt. I suggest you start off with a coat mixed from black/brown then weather it according to what season it is....mabe dry brush some earth coloured tones on there then do the raised parts then add some washes.....don;t forget to do the inside of the tracks as well as the outside.
Regards from the Swamp
Hawkeye
As to your question about mud, i would say it depends on what time of year you are setting your Tiger in. If it is early spring/late autumn, then you need the mud to look darker, and fresh. If it is in the summer months then it should look more like a fine coat of dust, or even a heavier coat if it has been in use for some time.
As to teh question about the tracks, all the film/pictures i have seen do show the raised part of the tracks to be a much lighter colour than the rest. Even what we know as mild steel will "shine" up when it comes into contact with an abrasive surface......so i would say you should paint the raised sections in a steel colour. As for the rest? Again it depends on what time of year it is. If it is a timewhen there was a heavy coating of mud, you need to take that into account. If, say, the tank was in use at Kharkov in early 43, and then again at Kursk later that year. The tracks would be considerable worn and would accumulate a heavy coating of dust and dirt. I suggest you start off with a coat mixed from black/brown then weather it according to what season it is....mabe dry brush some earth coloured tones on there then do the raised parts then add some washes.....don;t forget to do the inside of the tracks as well as the outside.
Regards from the Swamp
Hawkeye
rv1963
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
Armorama: 315 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 04:57 AM UTC
That looks great so far Karl i agree with the others the mud looks a little to red in the pictures.
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
but I'm curious as to the number of crosses... I have not seen any photo's of Tigers with Crosses on the turret, especialy two next to each other?
Heres a picture of Tiger 332.
cheers karl
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:03 AM UTC
i now understand the 'Double' Cross, but the Feifel Air-Cleaner leaves me a tad confused...Jim 
hworth18
Joined: January 10, 2003
KitMaker: 426 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
i now understand the 'Double' Cross, but the Feifel Air-Cleaner leaves me a tad confused...Jim
The Feifels were on all Tigers issued at that time, regardless if they were sent to Africa, or Russia..
Most of the Time, the tankers in Russia took them off because they were useless..
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:29 AM UTC
Well what do I know... 
:-) :-) .
You learn something everyday (well I do..)
In the photo the Feifel aircleaner housing is still attached to the rear, but the pipes have been removed as the Feifel system was only used in the desert. But no doubt someone will now post a pic of a Tiger in 6 foot of snow, with a working Feifel system...
:-)
Cheers
Henk
:-) :-) .You learn something everyday (well I do..)
In the photo the Feifel aircleaner housing is still attached to the rear, but the pipes have been removed as the Feifel system was only used in the desert. But no doubt someone will now post a pic of a Tiger in 6 foot of snow, with a working Feifel system...
:-) Cheers
Henk
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Feifels were on all Tigers issued at that time, regardless if they were sent to Africa, or Russia..
Most of the Time, the tankers in Russia took them off because they were useless..
That I understand, however, going by the photo, '332' had everything except the tubes on it - or are my eyes deceiving me?...Jim
PanzerKarl
Joined: April 20, 2004
KitMaker: 2,439 posts
Armorama: 1,980 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:43 AM UTC
i have now changed the mud colour to a more dryed mud,using Tamiya buff.
Hawkeye
Joined: March 29, 2002
KitMaker: 701 posts
Armorama: 640 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 05:45 AM UTC
Nice one Karl, looks much better
Regards from the Swamp
Hawkeye
Regards from the Swamp
Hawkeye
Parks20
Joined: December 18, 2004
KitMaker: 737 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:30 AM UTC
Yup, that there new dirt job looks much gooder.
AJLaFleche
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
Armorama: 3,293 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 06:32 AM UTC
It's late i nthe processbut in the opverhead shot of the turret,there's an inconsistent seam an a bump of glue or filler just before it starts up at the back. Also, dead center at the back there's a bit of somethng that sticks up.
Excellent decal work, however. The new dust looks much better and good work on the reference for the multip,e crosses at the back.
Excellent decal work, however. The new dust looks much better and good work on the reference for the multip,e crosses at the back.
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 07:50 AM UTC
Hi Karl ...Yeah I like that mud alot better ...Good build so far ..I found a few pictures of your tank and thought I'd post them for you ..sorry for the quality of the pictures but hey...
You've done a good job with this one but I really do believe Tamiya got it wrong by making you paint your kit gray ..The tanks of the 503rd were repainted for the Kursk offensive ..The info I have on these tanks is they were painted a yellow-green -olive color..and the numbers were black with white outlines...Like I say not your fault but that of the instruction sheet..These pictures show your tank in October 1943 ..hope you like the pictures..
Notice some of the shot marks on the hull and mantlet..There are some other little details you might want to add ..if you want too...
Rick
You've done a good job with this one but I really do believe Tamiya got it wrong by making you paint your kit gray ..The tanks of the 503rd were repainted for the Kursk offensive ..The info I have on these tanks is they were painted a yellow-green -olive color..and the numbers were black with white outlines...Like I say not your fault but that of the instruction sheet..These pictures show your tank in October 1943 ..hope you like the pictures..
Notice some of the shot marks on the hull and mantlet..There are some other little details you might want to add ..if you want too...
Rick
043
Joined: February 18, 2005
KitMaker: 1,242 posts
Armorama: 286 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 08:05 AM UTC
Short comment: good job done Karl
Eric
Eric
Tiger101
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 902 posts
Armorama: 628 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 03:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextThe Feifels were on all Tigers issued at that time, regardless if they were sent to Africa, or Russia..
Most of the Time, the tankers in Russia took them off because they were useless..
That I understand, however, going by the photo, '332' had everything except the tubes on it - or are my eyes deceiving me?...Jim
Jim the Feifel cans were left by most of the crews. Yes you are correct in the photo the hoses are removed. It is common to model with them in place. It is not totally wrong to. it is up to the builder how much he or she wants to represent what may or may not have been.For the most part I have models showing them with the Fiefels fully intact. it's just the way I like them to look. If I was doing a dio of a photo then I would be guided by that photo totally. There is nothing that says at one time in its life 332 didn't have them hooked up for some time in its service life. Later production models has the whole system removed.
Ian2
Joined: January 14, 2005
KitMaker: 97 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 07:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Karl, very nice indeed! I know you posted to ask a question but I have one or two for you. The pictures show a gritty finish to the mud, how did you do that, how did you apply it and how are you going to match it up with the roadwheels and tracks?
While I'm at it, how do you paint German tracks? (and how long is a piece of string, I know sorry but I need advice) I'm told by those that know that German tracks were made from Magnesium and therefore shouldn't have a shiny metal finish on the raised parts but in film footage of Stug III Ausf A/B's the sun shines off the tracks as they pass the camera?
As for the colour of the mud, it seems a little pink/red to me but what do I know, I'm only on my second AFV kit and I have a lot to learn.
By the way if I wanted to post some pictures for advice do I need to have my own webspace to do it or does Armorama have the space for a few per person?
Phil
Hi Phil.
Where you say that German tracks were made from magnesium - do you mean manganese? I think links were composed of a manganese alloy and hardened in order to increase track life.
They would dull down in service use (though not get rusty as depicted in several models I've seen - the crew would be on a fizzer for neglecting their vehicle!) but areas that came into regular contact with the ground (the raised treads for example) would get poilished up very quickly. Likewise the inner faces where metal to metal contact would occur - this more obvious when the Tigers were fitted with the all steel silent-bloc wheels in 1944.
In answer to your other question - twice as long as half a piece of string!
Regards
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 - 11:53 PM UTC
Scott, thanks for that - no criticism was intended whatsoever. It's just that i've been looking into the Feifel system in the last few weeks and any new 'source' is fascinating. Thanks again, Jim
Tiger101
Joined: March 02, 2002
KitMaker: 902 posts
Armorama: 628 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 12:10 AM UTC
Your welcome Jim. I didn't take it as you attempting to be critical about it. Its something that many people get passionate about and its really no big deal. Build them as you like them. Thats my thought. I'm glad I could help you out.
Its something that many people get passionate about and its really no big deal. Build them as you like them. Thats my thought. I'm glad I could help you out.
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
KitMaker: 718 posts
Armorama: 684 posts
Posted: Thursday, May 26, 2005 - 07:06 AM UTC
Hello Karl,
Nice kit and a definite improvement on the mud from the original red/pink color. i too am in the process of finishing my 3 in 1 Tiger kit. I too have picked a vehicle from the SPzAbtl 303 (FHH). Doing my research it shows tanks with and without the Fifel system as well as tanks with the different type's of turret stowage boxes. I'm doing mine to represent the Tank the Kurt Knispel was the gunner on.
Tanks
Andy
Nice kit and a definite improvement on the mud from the original red/pink color. i too am in the process of finishing my 3 in 1 Tiger kit. I too have picked a vehicle from the SPzAbtl 303 (FHH). Doing my research it shows tanks with and without the Fifel system as well as tanks with the different type's of turret stowage boxes. I'm doing mine to represent the Tank the Kurt Knispel was the gunner on.
Tanks
Andy
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