Hi everyone

I put a post in the diorama forum too (wasnt too sure where to post) my question is does anyone have any info/images regards the 12th SS panzer div. (hitlerjugend) that were in the Caen area 43/44. Im helping a friend do a diorama and its purely for accuracy for the scene.

Thanks in advance all

Alpha

Info from my squadron reference book "SS Armor a pictorial history of the armored Formation of the Waffen-SS"

Info for Summer 1944- spring 1945

relating the info mostly on the 12th with some other relevent info tossed in.

D-Day found 4 SS divisions in the west. LAH (1st SS I think) was in Belgium near enghien, HJ (12th SS) was near Dreux, due west of Paris, the closest to Normandy, GvB (17th SS) was at Thouars south of the Loire and Das Reich (2nd SS) was at Cahors, in the bordeaux region.

The Afternoon of D-Day HJ was ordered to make a rapid counter-attack. They had some local success agaist the Canadians but lack of experience and co-operaton with 21'st panzer division didn't allow any real gains. The battles in the bocage country lasted about 2 months.

On June 29 HJ linked up with other units on the Odon(?) and entered the battle on the Falaise road south of Caen around July 11. (wording is a bit vauge but seems there were 4 SS units involved here)

HJ, Das Reich and Hohenstaufen remained in the Falaise area at the North edge of the pocket untill Falaise Fell on August 17th.

By the end of august HJ was still in combat attempting to hold up the americans between Amiens and the Belgian border.

HJ also took part in the Battle of the Buldge and were in on the attack of Bastogne

anyway thats the gist of the info in my book.

link for more info

From Axis History Fact book

What kind of answers do you want ? If you want to know what types of tanks they had ..well they had Panzer IV H's and J's and Panther A's and maybe a few Panther G earlies... If you want to know about uniforms well they used about everthing under the sun ...Some wore the tankers one piece cammoed overalls... Also the pea pattern cammo as well as the more common SS smocks ..There was also extensive use of Italian cammo made into uniforms.. Let us know more exactly what kind of info you need and I'm sure you'll get more answers.

All the best
Rick

Hey Delbert

Brilliant stuff, thankyou! The diorama we are putting together focuses in the Caen area, pre DDay focusing on confidence and preparations being made for the defence of france. Currently we have several vehicles listed, ill try to post more as soon as i can. Its my friends first diorama in a long time and he wants to do something special. Re:21st panzer found lost of info about them, but limited info on equipment etc for the 12th SS!.

Thankyou for your help!

Alpha

Thanks Bear

Well currently we are including in the dio':
1 truck unloading supplies
1 staff car and/or kubelwagen
1 Wespe (where appropriate)

Military police/orderlies
Troops (mg team) moving through the scene
We've put together a plan for the diorama, and where we want to place the armour/ vehicles. I think what we need is specifics for the armour because we are trying to put a PRE DDay scene together, so nothing post june 44. We didnt want to put late war armour/vehicles in a mid war scene, if you understand my meaning. I had a rough idea re uniforms, but really just wanted to confirm my thoughts, which you have!

So my focus now is on nailing the armour/vehicles down. Would a Wespe be appropriate? We are considering using a Horch for a staff car but would prefer to use a mercedes or something like that?

cheers
Aaron

Hi Aaron ..just remember that the 12SS was not in Caen before the invasion but just west of Paris . So the idea of pre-invasion is not really plausible ...You could make it as if it was just arriving and preparing for deployement. Your are fine with a Wespe .

Rick

when I get home tonight i'll try to go through a few of my books and see what equimpent was being used by the germans around d-day for ya.. remember most of the SS got the newest and best equipment available..

I think the idea behind the diorama is to show the German army when it was still confident and not quite on the defensive yet. The diorama that we're trying to build will hopefully show the men relaxed and confident, with little idea of whats to come. The initial idea was a pre DDay dio' but i think the 'deploying' idea may be a good one to go with. Great news about the wespe - we wanted to show something a little different from your standard panzer :-)

Thanks for all your help guys its much appreciated! any more you have would be great lol

Aaron

Hello Aaron,
There is a 2 part series on the 12th SS reprinted by Stackpole books with great information and pics. The books sell for about 19.95 each. Just an F.Y.I if your looking at getting some research material.

Semper FI
Andy

hey Tankleader

Thanks for the FYI ill have a look online and see if i can find them. Big thanks to all my friend will be really pleased at your kind responses which all help to make our project a very special one indeed.



Aaron

Hey there just found this link which lists the equipment of the 12th SS HitlerJugend.. personally I can't tell you how accurate it is but its a good starting point..

12th SS Panzer Division

here a quote of the relevent info...

"At the start of June 1944, the Division was declared ready for combat operations. SS-Brigadeführer Fritz Witt, an LSSAH veteran, was the Commanding officer. The Division's tank strength at complement was 81 Panther ausf A / G and 104 Panzer IV ausf H / J tanks. The Division was also equipped with Jagdpanzer IVL70 tank destroyers, 3 prototype Wirbelwind flak vehicles, along with a number of 20mm, 37mm and 88mm flak guns, Hummel, Wespe and sIG 33 SP guns and regular tube artillery.

However, its tank destroyer unit, SS-Panzerjägerabteilung 12, was not ready for action and was understrength in Jagdpanzer IV."

also in my book on the SS i've looked for the pics of the 12th SS and found some pics

one shows a panther leading some Kubelwagens, a 250/1 halftrack and a couple of motorcycles.

one photo I think you would like to hear about is some Panthers Ausf A's lead by a motorcycle with a sidecar through Caen on D-day.. parked to one side where the photographer seems to be is what looks like a Horch.

another is of a 251/7 engineer vehicle.

thats all the HJ pics in the book that I can see from around D-Day..

also another link

12th ss Panzer Division

has this excert about Caen..

"Following the Allied assault on Normandy on June 6, 1944, the 12th SS Panzer Division, then stationed at Dreux, France, was ordered to defend the city of Caen. The division suffered high casualities (approximately 60%) in its defense of Caen, and was eventually driven out of the city by British and Canadian forces in early July."

Hey Delbert

Thanks once again! im beginning to think you were a library in a previous life lol :-)

I know the plan atm is to use a Wespe, maybe a kubelwagen, a supply truck, and a staff car - thanks for the note about the Horch itll really help. Im going to post a diagram of the diorama in the dio forum to get some opinions and ideas.

thanks for all your help mate youre a star

Aaron