Hello
A while ago I started building a Battle of the bulge Dio. I also decided to add a river. But I never worked with water in a Dio.
Then I bought E-Z water from woodlandscenics the first time. But I never liked the result. The river was far to yellow...
Again to the storeand I bought realistic water from woodland scenics. I used it on a test dio. I poured the water about 8mm the day after it shrinked to only 3mm water. The underground absorbed the rest I think....
Now my question is should I first put a small thin layer of E-Z on the sand and lett it dry and pour the realistic water on the E-Z to prevent it from disapearing.
A bottle (29,95 euro) is not cheap and I don't intend to buy 3
And does anyone know how thick to pour the realistic water?? Do you have to pour different layers??? Or just pour the entire river....
Greetz Roel
Hosted by Darren Baker
E-Z water and Realistic Water
RoelGeutjens
Belgium
Joined: March 17, 2005
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:22 AM UTC
Epi
Texas, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:31 AM UTC
Roel,
You have to pour it in different layers to acheive the thickness you want.
I did a Veitnam rice patty and between layers, I would use a very thined mud color to color the water, The last layer was left alone and it lokked good.
You have to pour it in different layers to acheive the thickness you want.
I did a Veitnam rice patty and between layers, I would use a very thined mud color to color the water, The last layer was left alone and it lokked good.
Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:31 AM UTC
Hallo Roel,
I have recently started to use Realistic Water, and think it works well. The shrinkage is the same for me, even when I pour multiple layers. But the result is great so far, I will be using this for a mayor water based dio soon. According to the instructions, you should pour thin layers, not the whole depth in once.
Cheers
Henk
I have recently started to use Realistic Water, and think it works well. The shrinkage is the same for me, even when I pour multiple layers. But the result is great so far, I will be using this for a mayor water based dio soon. According to the instructions, you should pour thin layers, not the whole depth in once.
Cheers
Henk
slodder
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 12:59 AM UTC
Thin layers is key with whatever product you ultimately use.
Another thing you can try is a 'sealer' over the water bed first. Something like a waterproof varnish.
Another thing you can try is a 'sealer' over the water bed first. Something like a waterproof varnish.
RoelGeutjens
Belgium
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 410 posts
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Joined: March 17, 2005
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 01:47 AM UTC
Thanks for the replies sofar.
So between different layers you can use thin paint to colour the water going from dark to light???
@ slodder: I wanted to use the E-Z water and pour a really thin layer first as a sealer. you think that might work??
Greetz
So between different layers you can use thin paint to colour the water going from dark to light???
@ slodder: I wanted to use the E-Z water and pour a really thin layer first as a sealer. you think that might work??
Greetz
Epi
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 04:28 AM UTC
Yup, thats what I di Roel. Some of the other guys might have a different way of doing it, but that worked for me. I also let debri from the trees fall in the wet water and built the layers on that and it looked realy good.
RoelGeutjens
Belgium
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 410 posts
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Joined: March 17, 2005
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 04:59 AM UTC
Hey Epi
You have pics of that dio or that water??? Looks interesting....
Cheers
You have pics of that dio or that water??? Looks interesting....
Cheers
Epi
Texas, United States
Joined: December 22, 2001
KitMaker: 3,586 posts
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Joined: December 22, 2001
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 05:08 AM UTC
I was just looking to see if I had any still saved on Armorama.msn or photbucket or even here in the gallery, but it seems that I erased them.
I can shoot some more this tonight or this weekend and show them to ya.
I can shoot some more this tonight or this weekend and show them to ya.
Maki
Senior Editor
Croatia Hrvatska
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 10:39 AM UTC
tankysgal1
Nebraska, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 05:14 PM UTC
Roel..This topic always pops up from time to time in the forums and on a previous time it popped up..i emailed Woodland Scenics about their EZ water product and got this response...Not sure if this will help you..but thought it might give you some hints anyway.
Mary..
E-Z Water is used successfully by many modelers but it also has some characteristics that do not make it the preferred product for many applications; i.e. it dries brittle and can fracture if even slightly flexed or stressed, is itself yellow in color and therefore cannot be used to make blue water, requires heating at high temperature to use, etc. Woodland Scenics has introduced two new products (Realistic Water and Water Effects) that avoid these problems and are usually a better choice for modeling water.
With respect to your specific question regarding E-Z Water, yes, it can be tinted but only by adding dry powder pigment before the melting process. Never add liquid of any kind to E-Z Water.
E-Z Water
E-Z Water is a low odor, non-toxic plastic product that comes in the form of pellets, which are melted and poured into the prepared area on the layout. E-Z Water is easy to use because there is no measuring, no mixing, and it sets rapidly. Texturing of the water surface and repairs such as scratches can easily be accomplished after E-Z Water is in place with the use of a heat gun.
Preparing E-Z Water Areas: It is probably easier to wait until the complete ground cover landscaping is in place before adding E-Z Water to the layout. In most situations, it will be adequate to pour E-Z Water approximately 1/8" deep. Look at the areas where you plan to pour the E-Z Water. The contour materials around the edges of the areas where you plan lakes, harbors, or ponds may already be sufficient to hold 1/8" of liquid. If not, use some Lightweight Hydrocal or strips of Plaster Cloth to build up the banks. Be sure the bottom of these areas is level. E-Z Water will be heated to a high temperature before pouring. Therefore, do not pour it directly onto cellular Styrofoam or any other material which will melt.
Before pouring E-Z Water, the area underneath must be sealed to help prevent air bubbles from rising into the water. To do this, paint on a thick layer of Flex Paste wherever you plan to pour the E-Z Water and let it dry. Be sure to seal all cracks and holes. E-Z Water will set quickly enough that a small hole will not allow it to leak out. However, small cracks or holes will permit air bubbles to rise into the -Z Water.
Coloring E-Z Water Areas: Flex Paste remains white when it is dry. E-Z Water is transparent and light yellow or amber in color. Therefore, color must be added for a realistic looking result. Preparing water areas which have color can be done by coloring the bottom of the area or by a combination of coloring the bottom and tinting the E-Z Water itself. The water you get from the kitchen tap is clear and generally colorless, but water in its natural setting is seldom this pure. The water in lakes, pond, rivers, and oceans has dirt, algae, and other organisms in it that help to color it.
For a greenish brown coloring of water areas, use Stone Gray Liquid Pigment brushed on full strength over the flex Paste for an opaque covering. Allow the pigment to dry. Spray Scenic cement and sprinkle on a thin but even coating of Fine Turf pre-mixed in the following proportions: two parts Earth, two parts Burnt Grass, and one part Soil. Allow the dry completely before pouring E-Z Water.
Other combinations of Earth Color Liquid Pigments and Fine Turf colors can be used to create water areas with different coloring. Experiment to find the combinations that you like best. If you want to indicate more depth, add a darker color of Turf under some areas. Use Soil or Earth fine turf for this purpose. Blend the colors from the more shallow areas into the deeper areas for the most realistic look.
Deeper water areas like large lakes, ports and oceans are the most llikely to appear somewhat blue green. Brush on an opaque layer of a medium to dark blue green acrylic paint to achieve this color. Avoid the lighter and brighter blues because they do not look natural. A little black color may be added to some areas to indicate the deeper water.
If you want to tint the E-Z water itself, this can be done with an appropriate color of powdered Rit dye. Do not add any liquids to E-Z Water as they could boil over and cause burns. We suggest Navy Blue, Dark Green, or Pearl Gray Rit Dye. Add 1/16 teaspoon of powdered Rit dye to one bag of E-Z Water pellets before melting. Be sure to thoroughly mix the dye with the E-Z Water as it melts using a disposable wooden stick. When the E-Z Water reaches a liquid stage, place a couple of drops on aluminum foil to check the color. If it is too light, add more powdered Rit dye. If it is too dark, add a little more E-Z Water. Prepare the water area in the same manner as above with a coating of Flex Paste. Then cover with Liquid Pigment and a sprinkling of Fine turf before pouring E-Z Water.
Ballast, Talus, Turf material or Dead Fall can be attached to the bottom of the water areas before pouring E-Z Water. Attach these items with Scenic Glue after the Flex Paste covering is on and the area has been colored. Allow everything to dry thoroughly. If you want sediment to float in your E-Z Water, sprinkle some Fine or Coarse Turf in the water area, but do not attach it. When the E-Z Water is poured, this material will be suspended in the E-Z Water. Items such as sticks, rocks, or weeds may contain moisture or air pockets that will cause bubbles to form in the E-Z Water and are therefore not particularly desirable. Any plastic items you plan to imbed in E-Z Water, such as boats or people, should be tested first with a small sample of liquid E-Z Water. These plastic items may be melted by the E-Z Water.
Pouring E-Z Water: Melt the E-Z Water pellets in a a clean, dry disposable tin can, metal dish or pot because the residue is difficult to remove. A Teflon coated pan can also be used. E-Z Water can be removed from the Teflon, but may stick to the outside of the pan. Caution: E-Z Water is very difficult to remove if spilled. Use a burner, oven, or toaster oven to melt it quickly at a high temperature (approximately 400 degrees). E-Z Water cam be re-melted if it hardens before pouring. Smoking indicates the E-Z Water is too hot. Although not dangerous, the temperature should be reduced. You may want to use a disposable non-melting utensil such as a tongue depressor, craft stick, dowel rod, or old spoon (not plastic) to gently stir the E-Z Water. This will help distribute the heat and promote quicker melting. Alternative heat sources such as a heat lamp, Sterno stove, or propane stove will also work. Do not add any liquids to E-Z Water. They will not mix with the plastic and could erupt in a dangerous manner. Caution: the heated material is hot enough to severely burn your skin. As soon as the pellets are liquid, pour into the prepared area on the layout. If the E-Z Water hardens before pouring, just re-melt. The pellets are nearly colorless when melted but they will darken slightly if continuously exposed to heat in a melted form for more than 15 minutes. E-Z Water will harden in just a few minutes, depending on how deep it is poured. One package of E-Z Water will cover approximately a 14" diameter circle when poured 1/8" deep.
Repairing E-Z Water: Use a heat gun to remove air bubbles or make any repairs which are needed. Heat guns are available at hardware or home building stores. A heat gun may be used before the E-Z Water has set or after it is completely set. Hold the heat gun approximately six inches from the surface of the E-Z Water and move it continuously in a circular pattern as you remelt the surface. Scratches and cracks are repaired by re-melting the surface with the heat gun, which allows the scratches to disappear and the edges of the cracks to merge together. A rounded lip may occur along the edges of your body of water where the E-Z Water cooled too quickly. Use the heat gun to blow hot air along the rounded lip and flatten it out.
Mary..
E-Z Water is used successfully by many modelers but it also has some characteristics that do not make it the preferred product for many applications; i.e. it dries brittle and can fracture if even slightly flexed or stressed, is itself yellow in color and therefore cannot be used to make blue water, requires heating at high temperature to use, etc. Woodland Scenics has introduced two new products (Realistic Water and Water Effects) that avoid these problems and are usually a better choice for modeling water.
With respect to your specific question regarding E-Z Water, yes, it can be tinted but only by adding dry powder pigment before the melting process. Never add liquid of any kind to E-Z Water.
E-Z Water
E-Z Water is a low odor, non-toxic plastic product that comes in the form of pellets, which are melted and poured into the prepared area on the layout. E-Z Water is easy to use because there is no measuring, no mixing, and it sets rapidly. Texturing of the water surface and repairs such as scratches can easily be accomplished after E-Z Water is in place with the use of a heat gun.
Preparing E-Z Water Areas: It is probably easier to wait until the complete ground cover landscaping is in place before adding E-Z Water to the layout. In most situations, it will be adequate to pour E-Z Water approximately 1/8" deep. Look at the areas where you plan to pour the E-Z Water. The contour materials around the edges of the areas where you plan lakes, harbors, or ponds may already be sufficient to hold 1/8" of liquid. If not, use some Lightweight Hydrocal or strips of Plaster Cloth to build up the banks. Be sure the bottom of these areas is level. E-Z Water will be heated to a high temperature before pouring. Therefore, do not pour it directly onto cellular Styrofoam or any other material which will melt.
Before pouring E-Z Water, the area underneath must be sealed to help prevent air bubbles from rising into the water. To do this, paint on a thick layer of Flex Paste wherever you plan to pour the E-Z Water and let it dry. Be sure to seal all cracks and holes. E-Z Water will set quickly enough that a small hole will not allow it to leak out. However, small cracks or holes will permit air bubbles to rise into the -Z Water.
Coloring E-Z Water Areas: Flex Paste remains white when it is dry. E-Z Water is transparent and light yellow or amber in color. Therefore, color must be added for a realistic looking result. Preparing water areas which have color can be done by coloring the bottom of the area or by a combination of coloring the bottom and tinting the E-Z Water itself. The water you get from the kitchen tap is clear and generally colorless, but water in its natural setting is seldom this pure. The water in lakes, pond, rivers, and oceans has dirt, algae, and other organisms in it that help to color it.
For a greenish brown coloring of water areas, use Stone Gray Liquid Pigment brushed on full strength over the flex Paste for an opaque covering. Allow the pigment to dry. Spray Scenic cement and sprinkle on a thin but even coating of Fine Turf pre-mixed in the following proportions: two parts Earth, two parts Burnt Grass, and one part Soil. Allow the dry completely before pouring E-Z Water.
Other combinations of Earth Color Liquid Pigments and Fine Turf colors can be used to create water areas with different coloring. Experiment to find the combinations that you like best. If you want to indicate more depth, add a darker color of Turf under some areas. Use Soil or Earth fine turf for this purpose. Blend the colors from the more shallow areas into the deeper areas for the most realistic look.
Deeper water areas like large lakes, ports and oceans are the most llikely to appear somewhat blue green. Brush on an opaque layer of a medium to dark blue green acrylic paint to achieve this color. Avoid the lighter and brighter blues because they do not look natural. A little black color may be added to some areas to indicate the deeper water.
If you want to tint the E-Z water itself, this can be done with an appropriate color of powdered Rit dye. Do not add any liquids to E-Z Water as they could boil over and cause burns. We suggest Navy Blue, Dark Green, or Pearl Gray Rit Dye. Add 1/16 teaspoon of powdered Rit dye to one bag of E-Z Water pellets before melting. Be sure to thoroughly mix the dye with the E-Z Water as it melts using a disposable wooden stick. When the E-Z Water reaches a liquid stage, place a couple of drops on aluminum foil to check the color. If it is too light, add more powdered Rit dye. If it is too dark, add a little more E-Z Water. Prepare the water area in the same manner as above with a coating of Flex Paste. Then cover with Liquid Pigment and a sprinkling of Fine turf before pouring E-Z Water.
Ballast, Talus, Turf material or Dead Fall can be attached to the bottom of the water areas before pouring E-Z Water. Attach these items with Scenic Glue after the Flex Paste covering is on and the area has been colored. Allow everything to dry thoroughly. If you want sediment to float in your E-Z Water, sprinkle some Fine or Coarse Turf in the water area, but do not attach it. When the E-Z Water is poured, this material will be suspended in the E-Z Water. Items such as sticks, rocks, or weeds may contain moisture or air pockets that will cause bubbles to form in the E-Z Water and are therefore not particularly desirable. Any plastic items you plan to imbed in E-Z Water, such as boats or people, should be tested first with a small sample of liquid E-Z Water. These plastic items may be melted by the E-Z Water.
Pouring E-Z Water: Melt the E-Z Water pellets in a a clean, dry disposable tin can, metal dish or pot because the residue is difficult to remove. A Teflon coated pan can also be used. E-Z Water can be removed from the Teflon, but may stick to the outside of the pan. Caution: E-Z Water is very difficult to remove if spilled. Use a burner, oven, or toaster oven to melt it quickly at a high temperature (approximately 400 degrees). E-Z Water cam be re-melted if it hardens before pouring. Smoking indicates the E-Z Water is too hot. Although not dangerous, the temperature should be reduced. You may want to use a disposable non-melting utensil such as a tongue depressor, craft stick, dowel rod, or old spoon (not plastic) to gently stir the E-Z Water. This will help distribute the heat and promote quicker melting. Alternative heat sources such as a heat lamp, Sterno stove, or propane stove will also work. Do not add any liquids to E-Z Water. They will not mix with the plastic and could erupt in a dangerous manner. Caution: the heated material is hot enough to severely burn your skin. As soon as the pellets are liquid, pour into the prepared area on the layout. If the E-Z Water hardens before pouring, just re-melt. The pellets are nearly colorless when melted but they will darken slightly if continuously exposed to heat in a melted form for more than 15 minutes. E-Z Water will harden in just a few minutes, depending on how deep it is poured. One package of E-Z Water will cover approximately a 14" diameter circle when poured 1/8" deep.
Repairing E-Z Water: Use a heat gun to remove air bubbles or make any repairs which are needed. Heat guns are available at hardware or home building stores. A heat gun may be used before the E-Z Water has set or after it is completely set. Hold the heat gun approximately six inches from the surface of the E-Z Water and move it continuously in a circular pattern as you remelt the surface. Scratches and cracks are repaired by re-melting the surface with the heat gun, which allows the scratches to disappear and the edges of the cracks to merge together. A rounded lip may occur along the edges of your body of water where the E-Z Water cooled too quickly. Use the heat gun to blow hot air along the rounded lip and flatten it out.
RoelGeutjens
Belgium
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 410 posts
Armorama: 383 posts
Joined: March 17, 2005
KitMaker: 410 posts
Armorama: 383 posts
Posted: Friday, July 22, 2005 - 11:17 PM UTC
Hey
Thanks for the replies
Greetz Roel
Thanks for the replies
Greetz Roel