I'm looking for help!!! My knowledge of German armor is limited so I'm turing to all of you!!! I picked up the Dragon "KingTiger Late Production w/ new pattern track Ardennes 1944" for a song. Couldn't pass it up. I'm looking for research sources. I haven't done well. I have listed my inquireis below.

1. Zimmerit Yes/No
2. Interior/ Engine sources for kits and pics
3. Was this version ever deployed to the eastern front
4. Units that employed this version easter of western front
5. Sources for paint/ cammo schemes
6. Anything else you might be able to come up with

I had found an outstanding order of battle site for my Hornisse that has pics of the different equipment, personnel, trucks tracks....I would like to do a diorama with a battle weary tiger 1 and the king tiger side by side for a refit or something. I will take all of the suggestion, advice etc. in the comments for the dio when I post it. Thank you in advance for reading and responding.

SSG Q

Hey Eric,

1. Zimmerit Yes/No

Zimmerit was discontined in Sept 44, so you do not need ot put any on yours
2. Interior/ Engine sources for kits and pics

I did a Early Tiger 2 with the Jaguar interior,pics are very hard to come by . The Jaguar interior was for a Tamiya Tiger, so i am not sure if it will fitthe Dragon one. The engine i used was Verlinden, it is ok, but comes as a drop in unit and is not the full engine.

3. Was this version ever deployed to the eastern front

Yes it was.

4. Units that employed this version easter of western front

Schwere SS Panzer Abteilung 501, the unit that accompanied Kampfgruppe Pieper had this version in both hard edged ambush camo and soft edged ambush camo.

5. Sources for paint/ cammo schemes

Hmm unless you have access to "Tigers in combat" the best i can suggest is a three tone scheme, with or without ambush dots......not a lot of heavy wear and tear, these were new vehicles when they entered combat.

6. Anything else you might be able to come up with

Having never built the Dragon kit there is nothing i can add here, but good look and hopefully you can show us the Tiger when you have it finished

Regards from the Swamp

Hawkeye

This might help you also.

http://www.worldwar2aces.com/

SSG_Q -

First, Welcome to Armorama. You've come to the right place for help, support, info, techniques, and just about anything you want related to modeling. We'll all try our best to help you out and hope to share in your modeling experiences.
I haven't done the Dragon version of the Tiger II, but did the Tamiya "Ardennes" King Tiger. There are several AM sets available from sources like Aber, Eduard, and resin additions from Verlinden, others. The KTs were used by both the sSS Pz Abt 501 assigned to 1st SS Panzer and sPz Abt 506 (Heer) with Armeetruppen 6th Panzer Army. Though most all the Ardennes KTs were without zimmerit, I believe there were a couple from 506 with zimmerit and soft edged camo scheme (I'll defer to others more knowledgeable like "thebear", "Kelley", or "Biggles2" for more on this). If you don't want the hassle of doing zimmerit, I'd go with a KT from 501st and "hard edge" camo scheme. Ambush seems to have varied also with some KTs having heavier use of the "dots" to almost none or none at all. Concord Publications (available through Squadron and/or Great Models, others) have a couple outstanding books. One is "Battle of the Bulge" by Steven Zaloga, and another is "Panzers of the Ardennes Offensive, 1944-45" by Tom Cockle. Both outstanding references for only about $14. Hope this helps some.

Blade48mrd

I would like to make an observational comment on the subject of the dots in the 'ambush' camo where some vehicles are heavily dotted, and some hardly at all. Most of the wartime photos we have as reference are in B/W, and are not always very high quality. The point is, yellow spots on a green or brown background tend to be easily visible. Likewise green and brown spots on yellow. Green spots on brown, and vise versa, tend to disappear. Especially on 60 yr. old, 3 1/2 x 5 in. originals, which are faded, dirty, and under- or overexposed. Except for gov't archives, I don't expect the film itself (if it has survived) to be in much better shape. Light reflecting off angled armor surfaces also obscure camo patterns. Not to mention the quality and thinness of the paint applied. The variables can go on. This is my theory for sparse looking ambush spots.

Well, through some exhaustive research, using the unit you gave me, I discovered the 509th was detached and assigned to support the 2nd SS Das Reich on the Eastern Front and received Tiger IIs between Dec 44 and Jan 45. This seems like a likely place to see Tiger 1s and 2s together along with waffen SS infantry. Thanks for the inspiration and assistance!!

SSG Q

SSG_Q -

Did a little more digging around for info. If you're looking to use both the King Tiger and Tiger I in an "Ardennes" setting, this could work with a little imagination. The facts support the potential. The 5th Panzer Army, 9th Panzer Division had sPz Abt 301 assigned to it, and sPz Abt 301 had Tiger Is. After Peiper's retreat from Stoumont area on Christmas, the Kampfgruppe Peiper was disbanded and sent to the Veilsalm/Born area for assembly and re-fit where they combined with the 167 Volks Grenadiers to form XXXIX. Panzer Korp. They were then assigned to 5th Panzer Army in the Bastogne area. As part of 1SS Panzer, the remaining King Tigers of sSSPz Abt 501 were also re-assigned to the Bastogne area and would have/could have been involved in the last assaults. So a mixing/meeting of a sPz Abt 301 Tiger I and a sSSPz Abt 501 King Tiger could have occurred?

Remember that it is your diorama and also due to lack of specific details at times, a little "poetic license" is more than justified. I'd say with either you'd be alright. So go with it and enjoy. Keep us up to date on the progress. Thanks.

Blade48mrd

YEAH!!! LET'S HEAR IT FOR POETIC LICENSE!!!