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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Questions about details of German WW2 armor.
Vodnik
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Warszawa, Poland
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:18 PM UTC
As most of you know I'm mostly modern armor modeler, but right now I build DML Tiger Initial kit and I have a few simple questions to WW2 German armor gurus. All my question concern factory new tank - obviously some details, like colors could change during the use and abuse of the tank.

1. On the rear hull plate of the Tiger, ine a left bottom corner, is a small flat circular detail, that looks like a reflector. Is it really a reflector? Should I paint it red?

2. The barrel cleaning rods - were they all metal, or wooden with metal ends? Were they painted or not?

3. Pioneer tools - were they left in natural wood/metal color, or were they painted? E.g. what color was the jack?

4. Fire extinguisher on the engine deck - what color should it be?

5. The big rectangular block attached to the tank hull rear - was it wooden? What was the purpose of it?

EDIT: bonus 6th question : What color were smoke grenades? DML give plastic plugs to put inside the metal launcher tubes - I think they are meant to depict grenades. Any idea what color they were?...

Thanks in advance for help!

Pawel
TsunamiBomb
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:35 PM UTC
Its always a great detail to paint the tools wood even though they were painted over with the same color the tank was in real life. If you can paint wood good, then do it definatly.

The fire extinguisher is the same color as the tank usually.
DutchBird
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 09:39 PM UTC

Quoted Text

As most of you know I'm mostly modern armor modeler, but right now I build DML Tiger Initial kit and I have a few simple questions to WW2 German armor gurus. All my question concern factory new tank - obviously some details, like colors could change during the use and abuse of the tank.

1. On the rear hull plate of the Tiger, ine a left bottom corner, is a small flat circular detail, that looks like a reflector. Is it really a reflector? Should I paint it red?

2. The barrel cleaning rods - were they all metal, or wooden with metal ends? Were they painted or not?

3. Pioneer tools - were they left in natural wood/metal color, or were they painted? E.g. what color was the jack?

4. Fire extinguisher on the engine deck - what color should it be?

5. The big rectangular block attached to the tank hull rear - was it wooden? What was the purpose of it?

Thanks in advance for help!

Pawel


Hi Pawel,

I'll try to answer you point by point.

1. I am not certain, but I have always seen it painted in camo-color. It could well be a reflector though.

2. Barrel cleaning rods. I have seen them mostly in metal.

Now I'll lum 2-5 together:

As far as painting goes it depends (joy o joy!!). Sometimes, when the vehicles were painted in the field they were apparently simply oversprayed as the crews did not take them of. Others had them not oversprayed. So tools would be natural color. Fire extinguishers apparently were normally oversprayed, though factory color was dark-green (red is post WW II). The big rectangular block you are talking about is probably wood, and you could put it under the jack (for weight distribution purposes and give it a stable footing) when using the jack. The jack itself was black/gun-metal (that's how I have sene them painted most of the times).

Hope this helps a little,

Harm
thebear
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Posted: Monday, August 01, 2005 - 11:52 PM UTC
Hi Pawel... Yes it is a reflector..Usually it is covered in dust though...Barrel cleaning rods on the Tiger I were wood with metal ends.. Tools just look better not painted the same as the rest of the tank (how authentic ???) but the jacks seem to have been both painted or not.
Fire extinguisher dark gray or sand ...and last but not least ..yes it is a wooden block...

Have fun with your Tiger
Rick
Sticky
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 12:35 AM UTC
The Bear is correct except for the Fire Extinguisher. If the machine is factory fresh it would be a medium Grey green color.
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 03:48 AM UTC
Thanks a lot for all answers, guys! Very helpful!

But I have one more question for you: What color were smoke grenades? DML give plastic plugs to put inside the metal launcher tubes - I think they are meant to depict grenades. Any idea what color they were?...

Pawel
keenan
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 04:16 AM UTC
Heading to the house to repaint all the fire extinguishers on my German armor.
Thanks guys

Shaun
FAUST
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 04:21 AM UTC
Ola Pawel

The Smoke discharger tubes were in the same color as the Tank. So if you have a panzer grey tank the tubes would be panzer grey too. When the Tank was Panzer Gelb then the etc. etc.

Sticky
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 04:53 AM UTC
This link is a pic of the smoke candle http://www.custermen.net/nahvert/nebelkerze.jpg
Teacher
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 05:52 AM UTC
What's a smake candle? EDIT: Cheat! He's changed it!
Vadster
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 06:09 AM UTC
C'mon. ? I smoke, she smokes, they smake. :-)
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 06:51 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The Smoke discharger tubes were in the same color as the Tank.


Thanks Robert, but I asked about the smoke grenades/candles themselves, not the tubes.



Quoted Text

This link is a pic of the smake candle


Thanks a lot! Interesting picture, but black&white... And smoke candle is shown upside down - the part that can be seen in launcher tube is not visible.

Pawel
Vadster
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 06:57 AM UTC
A.F.A.I.K. the smoke candle shown in the link John supplied is NOT upside down.
Vodnik
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 07:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

A.F.A.I.K. the smoke candle shown in the link John supplied is NOT upside down.


Oups, maybe it is not - I really don't know much about these things. I asumed that it is upside down because the text painted on it is upside down and the thing on top is described as initial charge (if I understand it correctly) and looks like a percussion cap on the ammo shell.

Pawel
Biggles2
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 07:24 AM UTC
Maybe a dull metallic-grey color.
toadman1
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TOADMAN'S TANK PICTURES
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 07:54 AM UTC
Hi Pawel,
Check this site:

Tiger I Info

It may help answer your Tiger I questions.

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
Byrden
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 07:56 AM UTC
I don't know what colour these cans were, but I guess they would rarely be painted along with the tank. They were replaceable items.

The photo does indeed show the base of a can, with the percussion charge that will blow it out of the tube. the top side may have been similar, just missing the charge.

It's interesting that the bottom face is darker than the rest. But as to colour, I can't say.

David
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 08:22 AM UTC
Here's it is the way it would be dropped in the tube:
now the writting on the grenade is correct, and the photo text is upside down.


I don't think the top of the cannister would be anything other than a plain --- well --- top of a can. As for color, my guess would be what ever color was being used on standard equiptment at the time of manufacture. I don't think anyone sat in the store house repainting these, after they left the factory.
I don't know if they Germans used colored smoke back in those days, I would guess probably not, since it was to help hide the tank, not mark an area.
I would also venture a guess and say they probably had some sort of rubber or plastic cap over the ends to keep crap out of the tube when reloaded. And that these would probably be either the same color as the paint job on the tank if installed during painting or repainting, and probably be the rubber or plastic color if new, or replacemnts.....
Sticky
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:15 AM UTC
Since there is no definative proof one way or the other - I thinks its safe to paint it black, grey, green, or a tin color. Who is going to say differently. I would stay away from pink and maybe fushcia though.
RonV
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 09:39 AM UTC
You're probably safe to paint the smoke candles a dark green shade, almost black green. This was a standard color to paint most small metallic items
such as gas mask cases, sight cases etc., including
small explosive charge cases.

Best regards,
Ron Volstad
Grumpyoldman
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:18 AM UTC
Hey there Ron.... now we can all question him about that interesting contest, and great painting....... :-) :-)
acav
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Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2005 - 10:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

This link is a pic of the smoke candle http://www.custermen.net/nahvert/nebelkerze.jpg


More on the pic at this link - quick and judicious babelfishing later, I conclude that :

Nebelkerze = 'nebula' candle - but we all know 'nebel' equals smoke or fog, so let's call it a smoke candle...
Nebelkerze mit zubehör = smoke candle with accessories
Schnellnebelkerze = fast smoke candle
Zündschraube = ignition screw
Zündladung = primer
Wurfladung = throw charge

So the device was 'thrown' from the projector to make smoke, therefore the pic is of the bottom of the device.
However it's likely (maybe??) the other end or 'top' was a soild metal, with the smoke pouring from the 'bottom', where all the ignition/projection action is taking place - one charge to fire the 'candle', another to ignite the smoke compound...

$0.02

acav out

PS As to colour... **shrugs...**
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