While perusing my stash the other day I came across Tamiya's M3 halftrack kit, one that I've 'had plans' for, but never gotten around to building it.

It occurs to me though that, while there is has been in the past ten or so years a resurgence in models of US gear, no company has seen fit to replace Tamiya's old US halftrack kit. While I've seen people do amazing things with Tamyia's offering, I've also read over the years about complaints with the kit (not representing a production M3, having details wrong, etc.). And yet, M3s were ubiquitous during the war. Does it seem strange to anyone else that no model company has stepped up to replace this kit? I remember rumors about Italeri years ago, but it evidently amounted to nothing.

Before I consider doing anything with this old Tamiya kit, does anyone know if any of the major plastic manufacturers have any plans to redo this machine?

Nope, no new US Halftracks yet.

Based on rumor, Dragon may release kits of M2/M3 Halftracks sometime in the next year or two. While I would love that if true (especially for the M2), I'm not going to hold my breath, and will build the Tamiya halftracks in my stash.

I'm planning on cross-kitting the M21 Mortar Carrier with the M3A2 to help with the accuracy problems. Just not sure yet if I will build a straight M3 or M3A1...

And, based on the way things always happen, once I start the build, Dragon will release the new kits. In fact, lets everyone who has one of the Tamiya Halftracks unbuilt in their stash start on the kit - that is a surefire way to make sure a new molding comes out. :-) :-) :-)

Good idea. Let's get crackin' and help to process along. :-)

Chuck

I'll give it a go. Hey, this sounds like some sort of "campaign" to me. Anybody got an idea for one?

Italeri did mention two suprise US releases for this year at the IPMS Nats. One of them could be a half track as M2/M3 half track had been on one of their release lists about 2 years ago.


Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures

I hope would hope so. Italeri of Dragon ... either way suits me fine. But the 3 in 1 concept is ideal for kits of halftracks, as Dragon showd with their 251 series.
And they DID add a M3 halftrack in the back ground of their Tiger Late box-art ... signs of things to come?

Since it's been mentioned many times here on Armorama that this is a very desired kit, a NEW M2/M3 US Halftrack, and it hasn't gotten any response from any of the kit makers, I think the idea of us ALL starting work on a Tamiya kit so kismet will raise it's ugly head has real merit. I started a M21 and really screwed it up. I may have to start on my M3A2 or M16 and hope that will be enough to kick start us getting a new kit.

I wonder if they are watching the sales of the old Tamiya kits? Perhaps they think those kits are good enough and do not think a new tooled half-track would be that big a seller.

We all know that as soon as one of the online experts who helped in the development of a new, secret US half-track kit, drops a hint at T-L, M-L, here, etc., that Tamiya will flood the market with reissues of their old M3A2, M16 or M21 mortar carrier. Perhaps toss in the newer figures from the M4A3 and siphon the market.

Believe it or not, there are a lot of modelers out there who only buy Tamiya and follow them blindly despite better kits from lesser known companies.

I'd love to see early US half-tracks, and I hope someone surprises us with one soon.

I gotta agree with Sabot, there is a "Plastic war" going on out there, and I think the companies are trying to figure out how to deal with it right now.

For instance, the market did flood with Tamiya 250 and 251 kits not too long ago, and Tamiya still releases it's fairly poor old Panther kit from the early '70's.

Also, look at the releases from Trumpeter vs. Italeri (LCM) or Trumpeter vs. DML (Leopold, Karl, M1 Panther II...etc.)

Finally, there is the "cloning" of kits...not really Trumpeter's thing now, or Academy's, but still...

I really do think if modellers, especially ones who happen to have the ear for a major manufacturer (hint, hint) were to bring up the possabilities of certain kits, that it might surprise you what might come out.

And current events do not hurt either...now if only someone, somehow could get a real buzz going about a US M3 halftrack, a Mack NO, a Russian T-90S, and a US HET transporter, hey, we would have a show! :-)

Take a look at Academy's Stuarts and tell me they aren't pantographed Tamiya dogs? :-(




There are three Allied vehicles that could be used to base enough different varients to keep a wise manufacturer in new kits for years:

1) US Halftracks - have you any idea how many different vehicles could be produced based on smartly tooled M3? I'm sure you could get to 12 easy without getting into the A1, A2 level of variants or any of the field expedients. (Let's see - M2, M3, M5, M9, M4, M21, M16, M15, M14, T30 HMC, M3 GMC, T19 HMC, T54 GMC, T48 GMC. That's 14 right there!)

2) Centurions - 11 gun tanks in Brit service plus another half dozen major variants around the worl plus the specialty versions.

3) CMP trucks - This would be somewhat less popular, but another raft of variante could come off a well designed set of tooling. Fords & Chevs, 30cwt & 60 cwt, box bodies, tippers, wreckers & GS plus AA, LAD, etc., etc., etc.

An utterly ignored pool of saleable kit ideas with a minimum tooling investment.

Paul

I suppose we should all reply to that "want do you want?" poll in Finescale Modeler, because after years of bleating for the RA-5 Vigilante and the 1/350 Nimitz in that publication, modelers finally got these. (though I cannot help but wonder how many Vigilantes Trumpeter has actually sold. Sort of reminds me of HL Mencken: "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard.").

Come to think of it, since the major tanks of world war II have been the ground fought over by the model companies, and APCs and trucks are more and more as well, It doesn't surprised me that the model companies are forced to extend their flanks further into artillery as well--Dragon/AFV club's 88s, 105mm, the obscenely large German cannons. But to redo Italeri/Peerless Max' old 105mm would do nobody any favors, I imagine, since I'm guessing we are probably all sitting on a bunch of these. Still, while I'm whining for even more options in plastic, I also want a British army 5.5 inch gun.

Gosh, I remember the days when an "M8 Greyhound in plastic" meant a painful search for an old Monogram copy.

--or did Monogram even make an M8?

They did both the M20 and M8 armored cars.
http://www.cahood.com/M6404.htm
http://www.chars-francais.net/maquettes/m8armoredcar.htm

That's an extraordinary statement - having built both, the Academy ones and the old and nasty Tamiya ones, they have little in common with one another....

I firmly believe that a range of M2/M3 Half-tracks would probably sell pretty well. What I don't believe (sadly) is the scuttlebutt that Dragon are at the point of surprising us (this year at least). Personally I
DON'T want Academy blundering about with the M2/M3, the only company who are technically capable of this is Dragon. If any more evidence is needed, look at the mess they made of a well - documented vehicle like the M551...

I agree with Rob (Sabot) in this, I quote:




Sadly too damn true....Jim

Come on now guys, there is nothing wrong with Tamiya kits....for beginners. Pretty easy to build, not a lot of things to screw up and they are good for OOB fun builds. They are also great for trying out new techniques on. Any time I want to practice a new battle damage technique, zimmerite or painting/weathering, I grab an old Tamiya from the stash. Once I get the results I'm happy with, THEN I go ahead and do it on the good kit. :-) :-)

Jesse

Lets face it, I would Love a new M3 series of kits to be produced, but in reality I am not going to hold my breath, or loose too much sleep if it doesn't happen. I have more than enough top notch subjects to tackle as it is, a new Halftrrack would just join those from AFV and Dragon in my stash. The tamiya kit is not that bad, especially with K59 sprockets and R&J track.

By now I’ve held my breath long enough waiting for any new WWII Allied Armour releases! I am astounded that Dragon and even Italeri have items they’ve stopped production on, that are in demand.

Examples include:

Italeri
155mm M1(A2?) Howitzer
Sherman ‘Calliope’
M7 Priest
Kangaroo
Dodge WC 54 Ambulance (Old Bilek)

Dragon
US Tank Crew (From their Abrams set)
U.S. Tank Crew (NW Europe 1944)
M4A1 Early (Change the boxart to Mid)
M50
M51

Any plastic model producer ever going to put an M4A2 Early into production? What about the M3 Grant/Lee suspension on it’s own?

Dragon how about just releasing the M4A1, M4A4 and M4A3 upper Hulls in a plastic Bag! I’ll buy at least 3 of each!

You are right. Most newer Tamiya kits are very nice. What I mean is that given a choice between a Tamiya kit (which may be older) and an updated newly released kit by another manufacturer that is superior, some modelers will chose the older Tamiya kit just because of the brand name.

We could make a list of Allied vehicles that could be released, in a new form, by the model companies. It does make you wonder how one vehicle gets picked over another. There are some relatively obscure vehicles in plastic while there are huge gaps in the more common, widely used vehicles!

I totally agree. Look how much mileage Tamiya got out of their three Half-track kits. How long have they been around, 20 years or more? They've got to have recouped their initial investment. If Dragon needs a reason to bring one out they could always put German crosses on it.

I think Dragon has reissued the early Sherman and the US tankers but I am not 100% sure.
And, I think I read that the new 1/48th scale Tammy Sherman has the same open sponsons that all of their 1/35th scale Shermans do. That tells me they either don't listen to customer feedback or really don't care. I would have thought they could have rectified what was (is) seen as a major problem with the 1/35th scale model when they tooled the new 1/48th scale version.

Shaun

Dragons M4A1 was re-released yes. Not sure on the tankers. The Tamiya 1/48th Sherman does indeed have the same open sponsons. Shame as it really wouldn't have been a difficult thing to fix when they mastered the thing.

While talking to the Tiger Models owners at the Nationals, Spuds and I found out that they are planning to put out M2/M3 resin models beginning next year. They said that the quality will be on the same level as their new M3 Stuart models out now. Supposedly, they are going to produce the standard versions and several variations. It's exciting to me!

They said to watch their Web site for more details.

Dave

I'm afraid that isn't so. The turrets and interiors are certainly new however the lower hulls and running gear are direct copies of the Tamiya M3 with only a slight reprofiling of the differential housing and the bottoms of the sponsons being added.

Except for the sponsons, you can interchange the Tamiya and Academy lower hulls and suspension components in any combination you wish and they all fit. This wouldn't necessarily be proof it the Tamiya kit was accurate, but it is not and the Academy parts are exactly the same shape and size as the Tamiya masters. In fact, the Academy pantographing has resulted in a lot of hull/suspension parts where the older Tamiya parts are crisper and more detailed. Take a look at the road wheels, sure the Academy ones are a little wider, but the Tamiya ones have really nice weld detail at the joints and the correct shape of the spokes. Look at the detail on the face of the bogies. The Tamiya one has nice bolts, the Academy one has rivets. The layout of the parts in the hull/suspension is exactly the same, however, for a kit with a provided interior, designing the suspension to stick all the way through the hull walls makes no sense. The small hooks on the hull walls at the very back were designed to permit the Tamiya upper hull to be removed to change the batteries in the motorised original lower hull design. Why, if new, would Academy have designed the exact same features into their kit? The Tamiya M3 turret ring on the upper hull is well known to be about 0.125" too small. Why would Academy saddle themselves with the exact same error?

Believe me, it's a modified pantograph or a tool made using modified Tamiya kit parts as masters.

After all the years of waiting, it's a hack job and I've been buying back Tamiya M3s I sold off when the Academy kit was announced just to get a better version of the same kit.



Or the M3 Lee, as they'd butcher that as well. The worst thing is that if they release a butchered retool of an old kit, neither will sell well, but both will sell a bit, sucking up market and there will be a serious disincentive for anyone else to produce a really accurate new kit. I don't expect to see a newly tooled M3/M3A1 in my lifetime now that the two dogs are loose in the yard.



I don't know if I believe this or not. I'd say that a Dragon 3-in-1 (or eventualy 15-in-1) halftrack kit would likely be the best, but Trumpeter and Italeri could really do justice to it if they put their minds to it. Italeri certainly has done worthy work in the past. Even if they don't throw in all the bells and whistles of the newest Dragon kits, a clean, accurate M3 in a box for $25 would go a long way to making a lot of people happy. Same for Trumpeter. Their work on some of the obscure Japanese and Chinese AFVs shows their tooling people are capable of really great work. Let them loose on an M3 and we'll all be swimming in halftracks inside of two years. If AFV club took a proper go at it (like the M3A3) then I suspect from a technical standpoint they might out perform even Dragon, althuogh all the Dragon options might not be there.



Oh my g*d yes, what a disaster and another "retooled" vehicle we'll never see another new injection kit of.

Paul

Appreciate all the comments. Refer to Delta 42's posting.

DML US Tank Crew was re-released as well. Both in normal guise, and in the Normandy Anniversary box. this included an extra weapons sprue, several heads (real nice ones too, for plastic that is) and some dio bits.