Hi all,

I just bought a Tamiya Challenger II, the desertized version. I saw on TV that these desertised version also drive around in the standard green camo scheme. I like the green more than the desert yellow but I am afraid that if I do so the markings are not correct anymore. (the Tamiya manual is a bit vague about this) Tamiya provides markings for the Royal Scots Dragon Guards, B, C and HQ Squadron of the 7th Armoured Brigade. I also don't know if CIP panels are mounted in Britain during exercises.

Are there any British fellows who can help me?

Regards,

Matthijs

The only green Cr2 I have seen in Iraq were the RDG (not RSDG) , and these had the additional armour on the turret and the slat/bar armour around the rear hull.

Now, this was a couple months back, so its quite possible the RDG have since rotated back to the UK and been replaced by another unit.

Hi Mat,

The up-armouring kits are indeed used over here, although the CIPs arent.

Just a point on the 'desertised' phrase. i have never heard of them refered this way within the army. thamiya coined it up to make it more appealing for people wanting to model stuff used on op telic/OIF

Heres a couple of pics of one to help you out. The site they are from is great for modern British armour.





regards

Joe

Hi All

The Challenger 2 pics are of the Challenger 2 that is from the Armoured Trials and Development Unit (ATDU) that is based at Bovington camp in Dorset, its the demo tank that they use to trial new kit.
All the Challenger 2s that have returned from OpTelic would have the uparmour removed before leaving Iraq.

There are some really good pictures of this up-armoured trial vehicle posted over at Prime Portal:

http://www.primeportal.net/tanks/david_hale/challenger2_walk_1.htm

Cheers - Dan

Hi Joe, from what I gather, the Desert Challenger is actually that which was sold to Oman. It's a Cr 2, with Cr 1 tracks, .50 cal, and most notable a rebuilt cooling system. But this would be an Alvis designation, and not a UK Army term.

More trivia - the RAO Challengers are NOT Cr 2E's as has been reported in some other publications.

Okay,

thanks lads for the info. Now one final question. I found some pics with tanks in a desert yellow-green camo scheme. Is that an official British camo scheme?Never seen it before but might be an option for my Chally.

Cheers Mat

Here's a site with pictures of the two toned C2's but they are not up armoured ..hope this helps.



http://tonyhoare.tripod.com/id125.html

Rick

Thr two tone CR 2's are that of A Sqn 1 RTR based at Warminster in Wiltshire, they always have a busy year of doing crew commmanders courses and playing OPFOR against the battle groups on Salisbury Plain.

Pete

All British armour at BATUS in Southern Alberta is similarly painted in the two-tone sand and green camo. To the best of my knowledge none of the BATUS vehicles are fitted with the additional armour packages.

It was my understanding that the two-tone sand and green camo is standard in the UK military for OPFOR in exercises.

Cheers - Dan

Mat,

The sand and green camouflage is used in BATUS and exercises on Salisbury Plains - to the best of my knowledge never up-armoured.

Regards,

Neil

Yes BATUS is all sand and green except for the OPFOR out there that has an lizard cam scheme on them.
Salibury plain OPFOR has 1 sqn of CR2's and a Recce Troop consisting of 6 scimitars at the moment and a Battlion of Warriors and all the support for an armoured Battle Group.

Its also worth noteing that the two tone sand and green challenger 2's have the newer designed for the 12 road wheels. Just wondering would a challenger 2 ever be deployed in a situation like iraq without the additional armour? I have viewed the RHAE readings of the challenger 2 and the armour provides greater protection than the m1a2, Leopard A6 etc without these additions so are they neccasery? Surely the reduction in mobility is more negative factor than the positive point of greater armour protection.

I know this is off topic but i dont wish to start a new thread. I have read many articles saying a rifled gun is not as effective as a smoothbore because HEAT, HESH and APFSDS are more effecyive if they do not rotate around their axis! Is'nt that complete Bull Sh*t. Take a rugby ball for example as the projectile. If you throw it with no spin it is not accurate and range is poor. If you spin the ball round its axis it is more accurate and travles further. Is'nt this the same case with the tank projectiles?

Will,

Where did you find the RHAE data?

Regards,

Neil

http://members.tripod.com/collinsj/protect.htm

There you go!