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AFV Painting & Weathering
Answers to questions about the right paint scheme or tips for the right effect.
Enamels & Oils...
umustb
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Singapore / 新加坡
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 02:50 AM UTC
I know I can thin Oil paints with spirit or turpentine. (correct me if i'm wrong here)...
But is it possible to thin Enamel paints with spirit or turpentine too (I'm thinking of mixing Tamiya Enamel Black together with Oil paints)? Or should I stick to Enamel thinners?

The question might be a little vague... all this is done for weathering (washes)...
smithery
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Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 04:04 AM UTC
You could try it. Some enamel paints are indeed oil based. Not sure about Tamiya.


Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 07:12 AM UTC
I'm not sure about the Tamiya enamels - I personally don't like them - but alot of figure painters mix enamels and oils in order to accelerate the oil drying time.

Rudi
umustb
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 02:43 PM UTC
Thanks guys... I'll give it a try.
Afterall it's about having fun..
Plasticbattle
#003
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 05:41 PM UTC
Theres usually no problems mixing enamels and oils. The problem lays more with the thinner.
Indeed both can be mixed to shorten oils drying time, or extend enamels drying time. Both together are great for dry-brushing.
Most thinners will work for thinning out the mixture for painting .... but be careful .. some are so strong that they damge/lift the already dried coat.
For washes, the thinner can cause even more problems. At worst, it could lift your already dried paint or its just un-suitable for washes. What tends to happen is the pigment particles seperate, and instead of a nice, even, wash colour, you get little clumps of pigment and then areas of no paint at all.
I have tried several thinners; white spirit, balsamic terpentine, etc. but none work consistently like Humbrols own enamel thinner.
I have used a particular brand of white spirit with great success for thinning and washes, and then on the next model it lifted the paint. Now I stick with humbrol as I dont want to risk losing work already completed. Even if you only use it for washes, a little bottle goes a long way. For the few pennies saved by using something else, its not worth the hassle.
jazza
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 05:56 PM UTC
Whats the technique that you are using for your washes?
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 06:58 PM UTC
I think white spirit is also known as distilled turpentine, which is a much purer form of turps.

Jazza, not quite sure what your mean by "what technique" but basically a wash should look like dirty thinners/water/etc and not like thinned paint. Also I find pin-washes to be a bit easier to handle than a broad, general area wash...

Of course something to bear in mind when painting with oils, and I suppose this is a rather personal or subjective statement, is that washes aren't really necessary. Due to the long drying times of oils it is just as easy to blend in your darkest shadows. I think the works of Craig Whitaker (Mongo_Mel on Armorama.com) and Mark Bannerman (over at ML) bears witness to this.

As I said, this is a personal and subjective statement, there are tons of folk that use washes over oils with great success. In fact I think Frank uses them, and his figures are beautiful - and I'm sure Frank'll correct me on this point if I'm wrong

I think ultimately the best thing to do is to try various techniques and methods until ur happy with the results...

Rudi
umustb
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 10:52 PM UTC
Hi Rudi... I don't seem to get the idea of "blending in your darkest shadow"... haha... i'm a little slow here..

Anyway.. thanks Frank.. I got the key word Humbrols own enamel thinner ...
Tarok
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 11:12 PM UTC
JM,

It's not as bad as it seems :-)

Here is a quote from Mongo_Mel's Basics of Painting Figures with Oil Paints


Quoted Text

Applying Shadows
I like to paint my shadow before I do my highlights. I begin by painting in a streak of my shadow mix into the folds where the shadows will appear. Don’t add too much of the shadow color just yet. As you proceed, you can add more to get the contrast that you want.

Once you’ve painted in the shadows, you need to blend them into the base color. To do this, I usually use a flat brush with slightly stiff bristles. Take the brush and begin gently stabbing at the surface, just in the areas of the folds. This will start to blend the shadow color with the base color. Be careful though, too much blending and the contrast can disappear.

Something that helps the appearance of a figure is to add shadows around the seams of the uniform. Areas like where the pockets are sewn on and where the sleeve joins the body of the jacket. This is called outlining. Most of you are used to doing this using washes. To do this with oils, just paint a thin line of your shadow color in these areas. It doesn’t have to be perfect. Then using a good “flat” brush with fairly stiff bristles that still come to a good edge, gently “push” the shadow color into the seam area. This will put most of the shadow color into the deepest area of the seam and also will cause the base color to blend down meet to it.

After finishing the shadows, stipple the paint. You shouldn’t see too many brushstrokes now but this will eliminate any that are there. But be careful here! You don’t want to blend away all that work you just did applying your shadows.(See Figures 11 & 12)



jazza
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Posted: Thursday, September 08, 2005 - 11:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Jazza, not quite sure what your mean by "what technique" but basically a wash should look like dirty thinners/water/etc and not like thinned paint. Also I find pin-washes to be a bit easier to handle than a broad, general area wash...

Of course something to bear in mind when painting with oils, and I suppose this is a rather personal or subjective statement, is that washes aren't really necessary. Due to the long drying times of oils it is just as easy to blend in your darkest shadows. I think the works of Craig Whitaker (Mongo_Mel on Armorama.com) and Mark Bannerman (over at ML) bears witness to this.




You ended up answering my question anyway. What i meant when i asked what technique was really if you used oils, enamels or acrylics and whether you use a broad or pin wash.

Im rather new to the wash technique hence my asking.

Thanks for the tip!
umustb
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Posted: Friday, September 09, 2005 - 03:30 AM UTC
Thanks Rudi for the link..
Yeah... it's not as bad as it seems..
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