Does this smoke look a bit realistic?
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 19, 2002
KitMaker: 190 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 03:44 AM UTC
Hi all,
As you might know im currently working on a diorama with a destroyed tank on it. I wanted to make some smoke with it as if it was just destroyed. What do you guys think of this, does it look realistic or totally not? If not, what element is wrong in this? Thanks
"Why do men go to war? Because women are watching." -- T. S. Eliot
Delaware, United States
Joined: August 01, 2004
KitMaker: 1,281 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:00 AM UTC
Hi Thor
Iam no expert on this but i think it looks pretty effective its a very difficult effect to create and i think you have done pretty well ,i put it up on my desk top and stood back and looked at it and to be honest it was pretty good ,i would think that with all the other elements of the dio are in place i think it could be quite effective ,and well done for hsving the guts to have ago.
Just my two cents.
Looking forward to seeing the dio
Cheers Chris
'Gwell Angau na Chywilydd '-' Death rather than Dishonour'
Cheers Chris
Sao Paulo, Brazil
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 846 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:03 AM UTC
I believe is good! Just a obs: The smoke has to come out from all of the "holes" of the tank, like the periscope and all
Pig #114
Minister for Affairs, anything South American...
Colorado, United States
Joined: February 01, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:13 AM UTC
I'm not sure if it's possible to judge just based on photos. I think it is something that has to be seen in person. Honestly, I'm not crazy about it, but it's really totally up to you.
Rodger
If I'd had known grand kids were so much fun I'd have had them first.
Ask me about my Grand Son!
Provincia de Lugo, Spain / España
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:17 AM UTC
I honesty don't like it. I admire your attempt to do it, but, personally speaking, it doesn't convince me at all....Jim
Pavia, Italy
Joined: January 08, 2004
KitMaker: 88 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:41 AM UTC
mmmhh....I don't like it, but I appreciate your try!!
I remember I read article on old Fine Scale Modeler issues about smoke...you can look for them
ciao
Luca
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 05, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 04:46 AM UTC
It is such a difficult thing to make convincing. I've never seen it done yet. Sorry. Brilliant attempt though....
Vinnie
Joined: December 15, 2002
KitMaker: 4,503 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:06 AM UTC
You have made a good attempt. If you would thin it out a bit by pulling it up and re-shade some of the areas in a lighter color of gray, I think it would be more convincing.
]Here is an attempt I did for a Dio I built a couple of years ago.
Dave
"Don't be afraid to think outside the box"
"Animal wants Trucks!!"
Kikladhes, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: September 30, 2003
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 05:52 AM UTC
Honestly and after 25+ years of dioraming, i am convinced that there is no way to make smoke and fire in a way to convince u ..so .....its a good try but these effects are not easy to do . Bravo on ur trying though
Always look at the bright side of life.....with sun glasses !!!!
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: May 22, 2002
KitMaker: 4,082 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:14 AM UTC
I'm with Costas on this matter... there is no way to pull off convincing smoke and/or fire.... I'm sorry, I love your attempt, but it still looks like cotton wool. Not your fault... I have never seen smoke in scale that could convince me.... sorry !
Danny
All the way is far enough
Singapore / 新加坡
Joined: August 03, 2005
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 06:18 AM UTC
As its been said many times in this thread, its going to be hard to represent smoke in a dio as there doesnt appear to be a suitable substitute for smoke apart from having the real thing in your dio.
Its looking good thus far though.
Jeremy Wee
"A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he is finished.."
Quebec, Canada
Joined: March 23, 2004
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:02 AM UTC
i remember seeing a vignette of a french tank wih real smoke comming out. i jsut cant remember were
sorry.
Frank
"The problem with the french is that they don't have a word for entreupreuneur"
George W.Bush
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 21, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:14 AM UTC
Though it's a good try, it isn't really effective. I think there is a nice article somewhere on the site about putting real smoke in a dio, you could use it in collaboration with the article in FSM a while back, thue one about using red LEDs attached to a radio to make fire.
Lord Dave
You know you're a modeler when....
a:your fingers are forever encrusted with dried paint/cured glue
b:you smell of enamel thinner, glue, and paint 24/7
c:you shed a tear when the hobby shop closes.
piggy # 76 Lord Stomp and Mig hater
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: April 20, 2004
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 07:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
remember seeing a vignette of a french tank wih real smoke comming out. i jsut cant remember were
sorry.
here it is
https://armorama.kitmaker.net//features/363&page=4 Never in the field of scale modelling was so much owed by so many to so few.
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:00 AM UTC
Ok - with the above posts being noticed - if you're still interested here what I would do.
- pull the smoke apart a bit more, it's not airy enough
- add darker color near the middle to give it depth. It's very one dimentional right now.
- add some white to the tips
If this is a personal project for yourself I'd keep trying. If it's for a show I'd consider different options. If you want to try with this method and enhance make the suggested changes and then take black and white photos of it that will help too.
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 20, 2002
KitMaker: 1,667 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:08 AM UTC
Take a stroll down to your local model railroad shop and ask if they can get a "seuthe" (i think) smoke generator that goes in a loco. That might be of help to you although it'll need wiring up to a power supply.
HTH
Pete
Lord EU
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If you've got it a TRUCK brought it.
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: January 20, 2002
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 09:14 AM UTC
For Seuthe smoke generators try here
m g sharp Pete
Lord EU
Da Uk UPS Type Dude
Nolus Illegitemi Carborundum
Down with the Euro! Keep the POUND
If you've got it a TRUCK brought it.
Texas, United States
Joined: January 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,586 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 10:10 AM UTC
I have found only one way to do "real smoke" for armor... remove the turrent, place a small paper cup with water inside the hull, then drop in some small chips of dry ice. Replace the turrent, and then in a few seconds you have a nice white smoke coming out of every opening of the tank turrent... depending on how much water and how much dry ice you use, you can have 5-20 minutes of smoke... certainly enough for a good photo session. The only drawback is the smoke will be white, not dark as you might expect to see in an internal tank fire.
Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 19, 2002
KitMaker: 190 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 11:10 AM UTC
Thanks for all your replies!
This is indeed for an upcoming modelcontest, so with all the replies in mind, i think ill just skip the smoke in this project and maybe give it a try with one of my next models. If you guys dont like it, chances are big the judges wont like it either
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Next time iI will pull it apart more and use more colours, see what the results will be then.
The smoke generator sounds like a good option, but i was looking for more "permanent" smoke, thats why i choose to give it a try with the cotton.
Oh well, all things need trial and error and in this case an error. Back to the drawingboards
Appriciate your reactions!
"Why do men go to war? Because women are watching." -- T. S. Eliot
North Carolina, United States
Joined: February 22, 2002
KitMaker: 11,718 posts
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Posted: Monday, September 12, 2005 - 11:38 AM UTC
Ok - for a contest you will need to make some drybrush black smoke residue around the hatches as 'left overs' from the fire.
Oregon, United States
Joined: January 01, 2005
KitMaker: 7 posts
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Posted: Friday, September 16, 2005 - 09:56 AM UTC
Some video clips on modeling real smoke can be found at bottom of:
Smoking King Tiger This appears to be an operational - rather than destroyed - Tiger, I suppose permanent smoke would not have worked for the 88 main gun and diesel exhaust. Turn up your audio volume - the use of sound and smoke together is an interesting twist.
Noord-Brabant, Netherlands
Joined: February 18, 2005
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Posted: Friday, September 16, 2005 - 10:03 AM UTC
Thor, i think its pretty well done. Personally i should make the dots a little thinner than this. Maybe you can use more shades of gray for the effect.
Greetz 043
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Ik zal jullie en julie werk respecteren en tuurlijk hoop ik dat dat wederzijds zal
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#130
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: June 07, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 10:42 PM UTC
Ola Guys
I don`t think the smoke coming out is really convincing and I also will second what others have said that Smoke and fire are 2 things which almost are impossible to make convincing in scale. Then on the other side I also dislike the smoke generatorsIn the vehicles as I also think the smoke coming out of it then is not looking convincing. Indeed it is real smoke coming out of your vehicle and it is behaving like real smoke but it more looks like the tankcommander is sitting inside and smoking a gigantic cigar. Instead of the oily greasy fat black smoke you often see bullowing out of vehicles in Pictures and footage. (You even read it in eyewitness accounts about the Thick black greasy smoke.... you never read in an eyewitness report that it looked like the TC just lit up a Giant Corona
Just my thought.
Greetz Robert "FAUST" Blokker
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North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 21, 2005
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Posted: Saturday, September 17, 2005 - 11:58 PM UTC
I think the way you did it is actually not bad at all. I haven't found another way to do it. Not overdone either.
Airborne Infantry: The Queen of Battle
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California, United States
Joined: December 24, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 01:31 AM UTC
Thor,
I think the shape and size looks great, but the gray color in unconvincing. I KNOW there is a gallery photo on Track-Link showing the same thing, (darn, can't find it! It's either a T-34 or a WW2 German tank) and the modeler painted his cotton balls totally black, which looks extremely convincing.
If you browse through the T-L gallery, perhaps you can find that photo. I think you just need to paint your cotton a darker gray or close to black.