Hosted by Darren Baker
U.S. tail lights
GenHalftrack
Joined: September 22, 2002
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 02:44 PM UTC
On the rear end of an M3 halftrack, Or any WW2 American Vehicle for that matter, there are two tail lights. One is on the passenger side and one is on the driver side. Each light then is divided into two lenses, one top and one bottom. What are the proper lense colors for all four of these areas? I don't think they are all red nor or they all lights, maybe some are reflectors. Can someone tell me the proper uses and colors?
Thanks, Ed
Kencelot
Florida, United States
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 03:59 PM UTC
Okay, here goes. For the most part, the tail lights looked like this:
Here is the best explaination I could find:
What are Black Out Lights?
The US Army devised a strategy to use the tail lights and marker lights on vehicles to not only evade detection from the enemy, but also to help with the problem of conducting vehicle movement at night under black out conditions. These specially designed military lights are called Black Out Lights. The original type used were called ‘Blue Louver” blackout lights. They were sometimes also referred to as “Cat Eye / Cat’s Eye” Black Out Lamps, because the taillight had a black vertical stripe. These consisted of a glass lens at the front, followed by a black metal disc, and then a colored plastic inner lens. All the pieces were held together by a thick black rubber gasket mounted inside a pot metal bucket and metal bezel (cover). The metal disc would be perforated with many parallel cuts. The metal strips created by the slices were then bent forward to allow a tiny amount of light to pass through. (There were actually 2 metal discs, both with louvers, placed back-to-back and riveted or spot-welded together). The front marker lights had a blue gray colored lens, while the rear B/O Stop Light had 2 lenses, one of red, the other a blue gray. Individual parts could be replaced. These lights were used on all types of .
These lights consisted of a bucket, and metal bezel that contained a sealed unit. The individual lenses, screen, colored lens and bulb were a sealed unit and had to be replaced as a unit if one part was damaged. This made the unit much more water-resistant than the previous style. The way the black out effect was achieved was also changed for these standard B/O lights. The thick rubber gasket, the metal louvers, and the black stripes were gone. Instead the sealed unit contained a clear plastic lens on the outside. Then set back in from the front approx. ½ inch was a black plastic screen, which had upside down pyramids cut out. Following the black screen was a colored plastic lens in off-white, or red. Last, and set back into and soldered to the metal housing was the small incandescent light bulb of low output.
The key features were:
1) The upside down triangles,
2) The fact that the triangles were set back from the front,
3) The spacing of the triangles in relation to each other.
The set back and the fact the triangle was upside down was important because it allowed any one at foot level the see the lights clearly. However, anyone flying over and trying to spot the vehicles or get their bearing from automobile lights on the road were unable to see them because the angle would not allow it. The higher the angle, the less of the triangle was visible because of the overhang. Low output bulbs limited the distance the lights could be seen. The next key was the spacing of the triangles. The front marker light had 2 triangles. The rear stoplight had 2 pairs of triangles.
Configured like this: V V V V
They were cut into the black plastic in pairs. The triangles of a pair would be separated by about 3/8”, and the pairs were separated from each other by about 1-½ inches. This spacing was important. They had done the geometry to determine the correct separation to make these triangles of light helpful when driving in a convoy at night. As the driver of a vehicle located in the middle of the convoy driving at night under black out conditions, you had to rely on the B/O lights on the vehicle in front of you and behind you to maintain your speed and distance from the other vehicles in the convoy. If you could see all 4 red triangles of the stoplight in front of you, you were following to closely. If all 4 red triangles merged into 1 red light, you were too far back. What you wanted to see was that each of the PAIRS of red lights merged.
From this: V V V V To this: V V
This means you would see 2 red lights per taillight. This allowed you enough stopping distance, and kept you from getting left behind as well. As the driver, you were to also watch your rear view mirror and keep an eye on the guy behind you. His front marker lights to be exact. Those 2 triangles should merge into 1 if he was following you at the correct distance. If you could make out individual triangles, then he was following too closely and you should tap your brake lights to get his attention. If the lights faded and couldn’t be seen, then you might be driving to fast, or there could be a problem that would require halting the column.
Several months after standardizing the B/O lights, it was decided that a B/O Driving Light was needed. This was a larger lamp assembly that was mounted to the left front fender of the jeep and other vehicles. This light had a higher candlepower bulb inside. It was larger and used a lens with angles in it to direct the light in a horizontal pattern and minimize the light escaping vertically. The lamp also had a metal hood similar to a baseball cap’s bill built in to it to make it invisible from the sky. The name B/O Driving Light confused many people. The main purpose was not to help the driver see the terrain; rather it was for the people driving ahead of you. Your B/O Drive Light was right in line with the outside rear view mirror of the guy in front of you. As a driver, if you saw a rapidly approaching Black Out Drive Light in your rear view mirror, you could tap your brake lights as a warning or take evasive action as necessary. It would also allow pedestrians a better chance of seeing you coming and get out of your way. It’s value as a way of seeing where you were going is next to nil. B/O Driving lights became standard issue starting in mid 1942.
I hope this helps.
Here is the best explaination I could find:
What are Black Out Lights?
The US Army devised a strategy to use the tail lights and marker lights on vehicles to not only evade detection from the enemy, but also to help with the problem of conducting vehicle movement at night under black out conditions. These specially designed military lights are called Black Out Lights. The original type used were called ‘Blue Louver” blackout lights. They were sometimes also referred to as “Cat Eye / Cat’s Eye” Black Out Lamps, because the taillight had a black vertical stripe. These consisted of a glass lens at the front, followed by a black metal disc, and then a colored plastic inner lens. All the pieces were held together by a thick black rubber gasket mounted inside a pot metal bucket and metal bezel (cover). The metal disc would be perforated with many parallel cuts. The metal strips created by the slices were then bent forward to allow a tiny amount of light to pass through. (There were actually 2 metal discs, both with louvers, placed back-to-back and riveted or spot-welded together). The front marker lights had a blue gray colored lens, while the rear B/O Stop Light had 2 lenses, one of red, the other a blue gray. Individual parts could be replaced. These lights were used on all types of .
These lights consisted of a bucket, and metal bezel that contained a sealed unit. The individual lenses, screen, colored lens and bulb were a sealed unit and had to be replaced as a unit if one part was damaged. This made the unit much more water-resistant than the previous style. The way the black out effect was achieved was also changed for these standard B/O lights. The thick rubber gasket, the metal louvers, and the black stripes were gone. Instead the sealed unit contained a clear plastic lens on the outside. Then set back in from the front approx. ½ inch was a black plastic screen, which had upside down pyramids cut out. Following the black screen was a colored plastic lens in off-white, or red. Last, and set back into and soldered to the metal housing was the small incandescent light bulb of low output.
The key features were:
1) The upside down triangles,
2) The fact that the triangles were set back from the front,
3) The spacing of the triangles in relation to each other.
The set back and the fact the triangle was upside down was important because it allowed any one at foot level the see the lights clearly. However, anyone flying over and trying to spot the vehicles or get their bearing from automobile lights on the road were unable to see them because the angle would not allow it. The higher the angle, the less of the triangle was visible because of the overhang. Low output bulbs limited the distance the lights could be seen. The next key was the spacing of the triangles. The front marker light had 2 triangles. The rear stoplight had 2 pairs of triangles.
Configured like this: V V V V
They were cut into the black plastic in pairs. The triangles of a pair would be separated by about 3/8”, and the pairs were separated from each other by about 1-½ inches. This spacing was important. They had done the geometry to determine the correct separation to make these triangles of light helpful when driving in a convoy at night. As the driver of a vehicle located in the middle of the convoy driving at night under black out conditions, you had to rely on the B/O lights on the vehicle in front of you and behind you to maintain your speed and distance from the other vehicles in the convoy. If you could see all 4 red triangles of the stoplight in front of you, you were following to closely. If all 4 red triangles merged into 1 red light, you were too far back. What you wanted to see was that each of the PAIRS of red lights merged.
From this: V V V V To this: V V
This means you would see 2 red lights per taillight. This allowed you enough stopping distance, and kept you from getting left behind as well. As the driver, you were to also watch your rear view mirror and keep an eye on the guy behind you. His front marker lights to be exact. Those 2 triangles should merge into 1 if he was following you at the correct distance. If you could make out individual triangles, then he was following too closely and you should tap your brake lights to get his attention. If the lights faded and couldn’t be seen, then you might be driving to fast, or there could be a problem that would require halting the column.
Several months after standardizing the B/O lights, it was decided that a B/O Driving Light was needed. This was a larger lamp assembly that was mounted to the left front fender of the jeep and other vehicles. This light had a higher candlepower bulb inside. It was larger and used a lens with angles in it to direct the light in a horizontal pattern and minimize the light escaping vertically. The lamp also had a metal hood similar to a baseball cap’s bill built in to it to make it invisible from the sky. The name B/O Driving Light confused many people. The main purpose was not to help the driver see the terrain; rather it was for the people driving ahead of you. Your B/O Drive Light was right in line with the outside rear view mirror of the guy in front of you. As a driver, if you saw a rapidly approaching Black Out Drive Light in your rear view mirror, you could tap your brake lights as a warning or take evasive action as necessary. It would also allow pedestrians a better chance of seeing you coming and get out of your way. It’s value as a way of seeing where you were going is next to nil. B/O Driving lights became standard issue starting in mid 1942.
I hope this helps.
MrRoo
Queensland, Australia
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Joined: October 07, 2002
KitMaker: 3,856 posts
Armorama: 2,984 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 - 08:53 PM UTC
Ken you are pretty darn right there as these tailigts etc are used on the GMC-CCKW's as well.
Cliff (I'm a driver not a private)
AKA the CCKW kid
Cliff (I'm a driver not a private)
AKA the CCKW kid
avukich
Virginia, United States
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 760 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 02:21 AM UTC
Ken--Great stuff! I don't think that there is any more to know about US b/o lights. This is an exhaustive essay on them. Thanks for the great info.
GunTruck
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 06, 2002 - 04:25 AM UTC
Quoted Text
On the rear end of an M3 halftrack, Or any WW2 American Vehicle for that matter, there are two tail lights. One is on the passenger side and one is on the driver side. Each light then is divided into two lenses, one top and one bottom. What are the proper lense colors for all four of these areas? I don't think they are all red nor or they all lights, maybe some are reflectors. Can someone tell me the proper uses and colors?
Thanks, Ed
Ed - on the rear of US vehicles, only the leftside unit has the red stoplight uppermost. On most models the molding is correct, and the red lens is cast larger than its counterpart on the right side. Commonly, the three other lenses are painted with a silver background and a overcoat of a color like Tamiya X-19 Smoke.
Gunnie
GenHalftrack
Joined: September 22, 2002
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
KitMaker: 9 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:30 AM UTC
What more could I have asked for? I Will be more carefull in the future with my questions. Didn't know there was so much to be learned about the U.S. tail light. Thanks to all, Ed
ARMDCAV
United States
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:43 AM UTC
One small addition to the use of the convoy position lights. We were forever being cautioned not to stare at the lights too long. You tended to become memorized by them which could cause you to hit the vehicle in front of you either by failing to see the brake lights or falling into a stupor and not reacting. Most common on long night road marches.
GunTruck
California, United States
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 10:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
One small addition to the use of the convoy position lights. We were forever being cautioned not to stare at the lights too long. You tended to become memorized by them which could cause you to hit the vehicle in front of you either by failing to see the brake lights or falling into a stupor and not reacting. Most common on long night road marches.
I've heard that before and always wondered if it was true. Thanks a bunch for the confirmation!
Gunnie
ARMDCAV
United States
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 11:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextOne small addition to the use of the convoy position lights. We were forever being cautioned not to stare at the lights too long. You tended to become memorized by them which could cause you to hit the vehicle in front of you either by failing to see the brake lights or falling into a stupor and not reacting. Most common on long night road marches.
I've heard that before and always wondered if it was true. Thanks a bunch for the confirmation!
Gunnie
It was a problem most common in Germany where training areas were not far enough away to warrant rail but still far enough away to mean a long road march. Access was by way of the auto bonn for a lot of the trip and we were required to move during the night, less traffic. The roads were long and the ride was smooth and it's late at night. Long haulTruckers call it white line fever.
Dubanka
Alabama, United States
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 11:29 AM UTC
I remember from training many moons ago about the lights.
One= too far
Two = just right
Four = getting yelled at by your Tank Commander
The lights do get very mesmerizing, I got yelled at quite a few times.
The wierd thing is, that they don't train that system anymore because of the Army's reliance on night vision devices. Now we often go totally black, no lights whatsoever.
John
One= too far
Two = just right
Four = getting yelled at by your Tank Commander
The lights do get very mesmerizing, I got yelled at quite a few times.
The wierd thing is, that they don't train that system anymore because of the Army's reliance on night vision devices. Now we often go totally black, no lights whatsoever.
John
ARMDCAV
United States
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: July 29, 2002
KitMaker: 115 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 11:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I remember from training many moons ago about the lights.
One= too far
Two = just right
Four = getting yelled at by your Tank Commander
The lights do get very mesmerizing, I got yelled at quite a few times.
The wierd thing is, that they don't train that system anymore because of the Army's reliance on night vision devices. Now we often go totally black, no lights whatsoever.
John
What do you rely on now to maintain distance between vehicles? By the way I've been meaning to ask you modern tankers (read young whipper snappers) what is the new MOS for tankers? 30+ years ago it was 11 Echo. 11E10 loader 11E20 driver/gunner 11E40 TC 11E50 was Top or a master sgt.
Dubanka
Alabama, United States
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Joined: June 29, 2002
KitMaker: 152 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 11:47 AM UTC
You REALLY dated yourself on that comment.
In the 80's Armor Branch transferred to 19 series...
19E= M60
19K= M1 series
19D= Cav Scout
11 series were transferred to Infantry
10 level= E1-4
20=E5
30=E6
40=E7
Z= MSG/1SG/SGM/CSM
Just to let you know, I'll decipher mine....
M1 series Tanker(19K), E6(3), Recruiter qualified(4), M60A3 qualified(B8)
The general rule at night is 25-50 meters depending on ambient light. With Zero Illumination, it is EXTREMELY difficult even with Night Vision
John
In the 80's Armor Branch transferred to 19 series...
19E= M60
19K= M1 series
19D= Cav Scout
11 series were transferred to Infantry
10 level= E1-4
20=E5
30=E6
40=E7
Z= MSG/1SG/SGM/CSM
Just to let you know, I'll decipher mine....
M1 series Tanker(19K), E6(3), Recruiter qualified(4), M60A3 qualified(B8)
The general rule at night is 25-50 meters depending on ambient light. With Zero Illumination, it is EXTREMELY difficult even with Night Vision
John
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 07, 2002 - 12:08 PM UTC
Quoted Text
You REALLY dated yourself on that comment.
In the 80's Armor Branch transferred to 19 series...
19E= M60
19K= M1 series
19D= Cav Scout
And for some reason, Armor officers were 12 series:
12A=Armor Officer (Generic)
12B=Armor Officer in an Armor unit
12C=Armor Officer in a Cavalry unit (read: real Cav guy)
12D=Armor Officer in an Airborne Armor unit (deleted)
Funny thing is that your letter designation would change when you went to a differenct type of unit. In other words, you could be in an armor battalion and be a 12B then move to a Cav squadron and be a 12C. It just kind of described where you work. Although Cav officers went to the Scout Commander Certification Course (SC3) and to the Cav Leader Course (CLC) and 12D had to go to jump school and to M551 TC3.