been up to a dragon wagon lately..and i am curious how often are the engine hatch and the bullt proof windows opened? i mean iam aware that they are not much in the frontline..but for accuracy sake..no harm asking

They were usually open more than closed. The original theory was that the vehicle would be right up in the front line recovering vehicles. This proved to be impractical and was not done often, hence, it was uually opened up. Near the end of WWII, the body was changed to an open topped, soft cab (M26A1) based on the knowledge gained from early use. The M26A1 was more powerfull as well since it didn't have to drag the weight of the armored cab around anymore.

I've read that the engine created quite a bit of heat. (I guess a nice feature if it's winter time!). This being said, my guess would be that the armored shutters (both front, side and engine cooling shutters) would be open as much as feasible (barring rain or the occasional enemy action).

I recall reading in Cooper's "Death Traps" about how a gung-ho Lt. Col accompanied an M26 to go up near the front to retrieve a disabled M4 under hostile fire shortly after DDay. As he pulled up to some infantry dug in due to German mortar fire, the infantry Captain ran up to the Maintenance Colonel with his M1 Thompson drawn. The Capt pointed his SMG at the Lt. Col and threatened him to get out because the noise of the M26 drew enemy fire. Embarrassed and humiliated, the Lt Col withdrew.

The book you refer to is a great read. A MUST for WW2 western front modelers.

Craig

now another problem
on the tamiya instruction it says the trailer is able to carry 38 tonnes of tank...and panther was one of its load..but the panther itself is 45 tonnes..so is mr tamiya wrong?

Its not that they are wrong. The trailer has a rated capacity, but in reality it could carry what ever could be loaded on it.

even tigers? i doubt so..

The M15 Trailer was rated for 40 tons yet photographic evidence shows them hauling Panthers. Obviously a situation where need overrode "the book rules".

The later M15A1 was rated for 45 tons. This would have taken the Panther load a bit more easily but the Tiger I weighed in at whopping 57 tons, about a 35% overload for even the toughened M15A1. Now I don't see anyone who would argue that this attempt would be less than foolhardy.

Keep the Tigers hooked to chains and on the ground.

Agreed Roy! Thats what chains and tow bars were for. Looking back, I should have said "Within Reason". I did however, think it was Panthers we were talking about.

Everybody seems to have the idea that these weight limits put on by the government is all them trailers can haul, that if you put one more pound then they say, it will break in half, well that is so far from the truth.

They can hold way more weight then what the government says or manufacturer, the only thing, you won't be able to stop as safely as you could with their limits.

Truckers have been hauling overloads sense the beginning of trucks, that is how they come to find out what is best, and to what they put on military trucks, are for the safest possible to be able to stop in a safe distance.

Look at a duce and a half how heavy that is, you telling me that can only haul 2 1/2 tons, cause how many of you own 1/2 ton pickup, and had more then that on your pickup, now your springs might of been to the bottom, and your tires might of been bulging, but it hauled it across town, didn't it.

Cause if you had it full of gravel then you had over 21/2 tons on it, I have. Just my big motorcycle is over the 1/2 ton limit for my pickup, then I fill up both fuel tanks, and throw in the other 750 motorcycle, and it rides real nice for a 4 wheel drive 1/2 ton, and it didn't even flatten the springs, it just made it ride softer.

The same way with trailers, a lot of loads that can't be reduced that are over weight, you just buy a permit from the states to run on their highways over loaded.

Most loads require a trailer with more axles and tires today, now I used to do it the improper way, years back before the law got stiff on them things, but it was nothing to double the loads on the trailers back then, to make a lot of extra money, so I know first hand they can hold a lot more weight then they say.

I know some people that still do it, but it is way to expensive if you get caught, they are people I really don't even like to say I know, cause that is just a law breaking way of life.

Here's a famous WWII photo of the Dragon Wagon "Dry Run" will a Panther on the trailer...



It's from this page of Antonio Martin Tello's incredible build on Missing-Lynx...



http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/usa/amtdw/amtdw.htm

2 1/2 tons id the OFF ROAD capacity....
5 tons on "improved" roads (paved)

the weights usually have a saftey factor of 2.5 min

We had tome trucks in here to haul a couple of compressor skids weighing 150 tons each....
The NY State police inspected the trailers and found some cracked welds..... they spent 6 days repairing the trailer to get it to pass inspection.

was there any problem with the chaindrives? first time i saw a primemover with chaindrives.

It doesn't look like there were any problems with the chain drive. Here's a quote from someone who drove one...

"The chain drive never gave any trouble but the Ross power steering did not like the cold. If the bateries were warmed, it started at 30 below, 40 below and the large oil pan was too cold and took too much to turn over against the thick oil"

It's from this page...
http://www.afvnews.ca/cgi-bin/web-bbs/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/62348

In fact, the chain drive design may have been a factor in the Knuckey Truck Co being chosen over the Dart Motor Co. Here's a quote from the book "Dragon Wagon" A Visual History of the U.S. Army's Heavy Tank Tansporter 1941-1955" by David Doyle and Pat Stansell (page 3)...

..."Eventually, the Truck-Tractor; T25, was found superior to the Truck-Tractor; T13, primarily because of the better general layout and the Knuckey designed dual chain drive for the rear axles. It was felt that this offered a more reliable and more maintenance friendly vehicle."

The book "Dragon Wagon: Pacific Car and Foundry TR-1 M25 Tank Transporter" by Jochen Vollert, also says this about the chain drive (page 25)...

This design, carried out by the Knuckey Truck Company of San Francisco, was one of the key factors that led to the production of the M26 in this form."

The chains were constantly lubricated by a drip system. This is how Doyle and Stansell described it (page 29)...

"On top of each axle beam, an oil tank was mounted. This fed two valves that constantly dripped oil onto the chain drives. It is said that a Dragon Wagon could never get lost, all one had to do is follow the oil backwards!"



That and more M26 photos can be found on Tanxheaven here...
http://tanxheaven.com/m26dr/m26.htm

There's a French site with some good photos from the original manual...
http://www.ferreamole.it/images/Dragon/m25_dw_01.htm

Here's another first-hand account I found interesting...

"“When I was selected to drive the Dragon, it became obvious that I would be in the battle zones for much of the time. First thing that I did was to remove the speed controls, and tune the engine to gain maximum speed. I could flat-line the speedometer at 80 mph with a fully loaded tank. There wasn’t a thing on the roads in Italy or France that could stop me because of its huge size. We could stop, load or drag a tank out of the combat zone within minutes after arrival.”

“My best recollection was when I ran across a Sherman tank stuck in a bog in southern France. The tank was about 300 yards into the bog, and sunk up to the turret. There were three other tanks connected to it, and they were unable to budge it one-inch! I said: “you fellows need a hand?” and they took one look at my rig and laughed. If our tanks can’t pull it out, your truck certainly can’t. They removed the cables, and I drove the rig through the bog, and backed up to the tank. I hooked both winches on, and pulled it onto the flatbed and drove out within minutes. They couldn’t believe their eyes.”

It's from here...
http://www.rootsweb.com/~mtygf/county/m26.htm

Take care all.

Karl

ah..that brings us to another part
where can i find lots( i mean lots) of panther pic and color plates..preferbly non zimm