years ago I assembled the Academy full interior early production Tiger 1....Fiefel air cleaners, drum cupola etc. I zimmerited it. Realize now of course that this would not be an initial factory job, but in the course of the war would it have been something that might have been done by the crew (zimmerit on mine was hand done with putty and scrappers). Will not go back and sand the stuff off and really have no desire to build another as I have the 2 new dragon types yet to build along with 60 other kits. Just looking to verify that this is accurate enough to keep vehicle in my Tiger collection. (4 Tiger 1's and 3 Tiger 2's with a probability of a Hunting Tiger and Berge Tiger being added)

Hmmm I don't recall ever hearing about Zimm being applied in the field. I have always assumed that it was appied in the factory only. If it was field applied I would have to think it would be very rare.

How many early Tigers were still in use when the Germans began using zimm?

I am no expert and I am sure someone will be along with much more knowledge in this subject.

Sorry Steve,never seen an early Tiger 1 with zim on in any of the 15 books I have on the subject.
Zim was only applied at the factory and not by the crew in the field.
The only drum cupola Tiger turret with zim on I've seen is the VI (p) (Sd.Kfz.181).
Hope this helps
Andy

Steve, the short answer is I agree with the guys above. I don't think zimmerit was applied in the field. When you read about how zim was applied it was a very time consuming, and involved process. If it happened at all it was probably very infrequent, and then only to some of the smaller AFV's. Also when looking through all my Tiger refs unfortunately I have not found a pic of an early with zim.

Mike

The only Early looking Tiger-I (Hybrids Early Turret and Hull, but late roadwheels) from the Gruppe “Fehrmann”
have zimmerits

BTW, the pics are from Echelon Fine Details

I'm not sure if those zimmerits were applied in the field or factory...

Cheers

Well rats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Looks like areplacement is in order. May have to fight over one of those DAK versions after all.

Panzertracts 6 'D.W. to E-100' page 38. Photo of a drum coupla Tiger with Zimm.

'Tiger, History of a Legendary Weapon' page84. A photo of a drum coupla Tiger with Zimm.

I have to agree with the others about the issue of zimmerit 'in the field.' I just don't think it happened. My reasons are:
1.) As mentioned, it was time-consuming and laborious to apply. It was applied in two coats, with blow-torch drying of the first coat so that it would set in ~24 hours (if not dried by torch it would take up to a week). This would be difficult to do in the field.
2.) Complete lack of documentation supporting field application. OK, as far as I know this documentation has never been discovered. We have documentation and even surviving tins of the paint issued to troops for field application, but nothing of the sort for zimmerit.
3.) Most vehicles that suggest field application (i.e. ones that clearly didn't initially roll out of the factory with it but eventually got it such as the Elefant) were subjected to major refits in factories. In the case of the Elefant, I'm pretty sure documentation exists attesting to the fact the zimmerit was applied during this refit.

I believe point three is the primary culprit behind the myth of field applied zimmerit. Such vehicles had to get the zimmerit somewhere because we know they didn't get it during construction. So, like disruptive paint, many assumed they most likely had it applied in the field.

Now, regarding the possibility of an early Tiger with zimmerit, is this feasible? In my opinion, yes, it is possible but not necessarily likely. We know Tigers were frequently returned to factories for major repairs (after all, these were VERY expensive vehicles that warranted recovery whenever possible) and we have evidence of vehicles with mixed features resulting from these repairs. The question is, was zimmerit application a part of these repairs? I don't know, but I'm inclined to think not. Again, these repairs were not like the systematized refit programs that Elefants and Panther Ds went through. I almost find it more likely that what you'd see would be something like a repaired turret with zimmerit on a hull without it (or perhaps the other way around). In fact I think I've seen a photo of a vehicle like the former.

That's my long-winded $.02 on the matter.

One of the photos I mentioned is an early turret with the large pistol port and clearly covered in Zimm.

Hi Michael, well what's new? I missed one . Looking at this pic it's clear the turret is an early, and has zimmerit, but it's hard to tell if the hull has any on it. What do you think? I'm also curious as to what you think about possible field application of zim, I agree with Steve, for pretty much the same reasons he lists above.

Cheers,
Mike

Well guys, I'm playing it like this. It was that nice academ full interior kit. It was one of my early 35th scale builds which came out quite well considering, but not as good as I am doing now (built kit in 1996 or7. Found a Tamiya DAK on ebay and picked it up for $19,99 so I 'll put that in the Tiger collection and display the other opened up to show interior. Easy enough solution. Thanks to all who utilized their resource books. I used mine and saw nothing to support my wish.

The turret is fairly early because the track holders are not yet fitted to the sides. However the hull has the central headlight which means at least a 4 month gap between hull and turret. This is indeed an unusual tank and the further lack of smoke dischargers would indicate a very early turret.

Hello.

Ah Tigers - my favourite cat!

As far as I can tell from the books ive got on tigers - I've not seen any references of a Tiger with the Fiffel Air Cleaners and with zimmerit.

I believe that zimmerit was factory fitted OR workshop fitted and not something a field crew would do.

There is a possibility that there may have been some Tigers which had zimmerit retro applied by well stocked field workshops - but more than likily when doing this they would remove the air filters and update the cupola.

&:) Hilary and Jentz do a series of very good books on the Subject - ive got the Tiger 2 Book which lists the dates of and what modifications were made on a time line. - I cant afford the others yet but there Tiger 1 book may also contain such a chart.

I'll have a good look at my books tommorrow but I think you out of luck.

(You not alone though mate - ive foolishly applied zimmerit to a late panther G - only to realise that they didnt have it!)

Here is a photo of an Early Tiger-I with zimmerit. There are actually three of them. It was taken in the summer 1944

The one on the left is a Panzerbehfelswagen. The one on the middle is produced in June 1943 but is covered in zimmerit w/c did not start until early August or September 1943 (probably retro-fitted).




Cheers

Edit: The loader's periscope was introduced in March 1943, thus the Tiger - I in the middle still an early version since it was produced in June 1943 based on the chassis number..