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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Tiger l question
Biggles2
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Quebec, Canada
Joined: January 01, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, September 29, 2005 - 03:40 PM UTC
Would anyone have any documentation or evidence of Tiger l's being painted in any kind of 'ambush' camo pattern? And, if so, which style was it most similar to, ie; soft edge with spots, hard edge with spots, Hetzer style circular pattern, etc? Although it is probable that Tiger l production was phased out before 'ambush' camo patterns came into use.
Torchy
#047
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
Joined: September 13, 2005
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Posted: Friday, September 30, 2005 - 04:20 AM UTC
Hi Bud
trolled through all my books ,can't find any pics of a Tiger 1 in ambush cammo, SturmTiger yes, King tiger yes ,Tiger 1 no....
Silnious
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: October 18, 2005
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Posted: Monday, October 17, 2005 - 01:02 PM UTC
the Tiger 1 was out of production when the Hinteralt*, camo was being applied in september-October 1944. i have never seen any with it nor read any docs.
blaster76
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Texas, United States
Joined: September 15, 2002
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Posted: Monday, October 17, 2005 - 04:11 PM UTC
There is no reason not to believe it was painted with the ambush scheme in the field. Most other vehicles were painted there, why not one of these.
crockett
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Ohio, United States
Joined: February 04, 2005
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Posted: Monday, October 17, 2005 - 05:27 PM UTC
I've never seen one in any archive.
nfafan
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Alabama, United States
Joined: August 01, 2003
KitMaker: 335 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 17, 2005 - 06:59 PM UTC
As others have stated, no hard photos - yet - but cammo was applied in the field, and one could imagine a surviving Tiger I being cammo'd as such.
nikoaspo
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Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: August 16, 2003
KitMaker: 56 posts
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Posted: Monday, October 17, 2005 - 09:48 PM UTC
Hello,
as it is your model, you can paint in any way you want But there is no pics available and consensus among tank modellers is that there were no ambush camo Tiger I's. You would certainly raise a debate in model show
As I write this, someone will turn up with a pic :-) But that would be just great.

Niko
jpzr
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: July 01, 2004
KitMaker: 316 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There is no reason not to believe it was painted with the ambush scheme in the field. Most other vehicles were painted there, why not one of these.


I thought the so-called "ambush" pattern was factory applied.
Kelley
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Georgia, United States
Joined: November 21, 2002
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Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 09:44 AM UTC

Quoted Text

There is no reason not to believe it was painted with the ambush scheme in the field.

Well let's see, how about the reason that Tiger I production was ended before the Germans began using the ambush scheme.

Quoted Text

Most other vehicles were painted there, why not one of these.

Because at this point in the war the Germans had started painting many of their tanks at the factory and not in the field. This included all of the "big cats" and others that were painted in the ambush scheme as "jpzr" indicated in his post above.
Now, if someone can produce a picture of a Tiger I painted in an ambush scheme I'll be more than happy to admit I'm wrong. Until then I'll rely on the word of published experts who have researched the original German documents, and looked through hundreds, if not thousands of pictures, over blanket statements made on the web.

Regards,
Mike
nfafan
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Alabama, United States
Joined: August 01, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Because at this point in the war the Germans had started painting many of their tanks at the factory and not in the field. This included all of the "big cats" and others that were painted in the ambush scheme as "jpzr" indicated in his post above.
Regards,
Mike


And so the photos - still and video - of Panzer tankers painting their own cammo patterns on their tanks are sci-fi?
And the "built-in" spray apparatus on the KT's were for - airbrushing 1/35th Shermie kits??
Kelley
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Georgia, United States
Joined: November 21, 2002
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Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 01:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

And so the photos - still and video - of Panzer tankers painting their own cammo patterns on their tanks are sci-fi?
And the "built-in" spray apparatus on the KT's were for - airbrushing 1/35th Shermie kits??

Steve,
Nope they weren't sci-fi, they were taken a little earlier in the war. I too have seen the pics and have pointed them out to people before as proof the Germans did paint their tanks in the field. If you read my post correctly, it said "at this point in the war", that point being the fall of '44. This was when the order was given to start painting the tanks at the factories, this was also when the ambush scheme began to be used. This info comes from several sources, among them some of Thomas Jentz's books. Now if you want to continue to argue "they were painted in the field" just to justify painting your model the way you want, go right ahead. I'll wait till someone finds a pic myself. (unless I feel like painting a fantasy vehicle)

Mike

jpzr
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Kentucky, United States
Joined: July 01, 2004
KitMaker: 316 posts
Armorama: 270 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 19, 2005 - 01:44 AM UTC
I have to agree with Major Mike here. Everything I've seen about the subject says the ambush pattern was a fairly unique scheme that was applied in factories. It also had a specific timetable of application (IIRC, fall of '44, just in time for Wacht am Rhine, hence the profligate numbers of such vehicles in the "Battle of the Bulge") that precluded it being applied during Tiger I construction.
Now, one thing I've learned is that it is wise to "never say never" when discussing German armor, particularly around questions involving paint schemes/colors. But, the idea of a Tiger I with an ambush pattern is one that is best supported by documentary photographic evidence as such a vehicle would certainly be an outlier.
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