Hello all, I have two questions. First, does anyone know the color scheme for the blackhawk crews of the 160th and the actual color of the helicopters themselves? Second, does anyone have any ideas in coverting the Ah-6 to have the delivery platforms?

Kevin,

I don't have the answers but I am pretty sure they exist here on Armorama. Give the SEARCH function a try. Its' up near the top, in the lower menu bar area, at the right side.

Hope that helps & Welcome to Armorama!

Jim

For Operation Gothic Serpent, Blackhawk Down raid, the general consensus is that the MH-60Ls were flat black, some still say they were Helo Drab green, but I think black. Littlebirds were flat black. Pilots wore khaki/tan and Sage Green flight suits.

Here is what I have gathered from some people who were there:
"For an Operation Gothic Serpent MH-60L, here’s what I can tell you as told to me by a Doorgunner from the 160th who flew the mission on Oct 3-4 1993. The Blackhawks were all MH-60L, They were black with OD Markings, No IFR probe, Pilot Doors were removed for missions, FLIR and Radar Dome were fitted but not the angled missile detectors on the nose. No ESSS wings were used during missions the AH-6 was used for fire support. The internal fuel tanks were removed for missions due to small distances flown and to fit more passengers in the back. The aircrafts call sign was painted on the window of the cargo door on both side e.g. Super 68 had "68" painted on the windows. As for the Crews they all wore Desert sand colored flying suits with a pistol usually on the thigh and their survival vest (unsure what type) and helmet personal weapons were Mp-5 or M-16 usually. M-134 was the only weapons carried no .50s and the miniguns were fed by 2 individual 20mm ammo box one per gun not the huge central one like the HH-60G in the Kit.

1) The 160th MH-60L's didn't use internal aux tanks as the ranges flown were minimal, and they were primarily configured for max pax. Some of the regular army -60's used ESSS and the Medevac -60's as well.
2) There are actually two internal aux tanks mounted side-by-side against the rear bulkhead. Sometimes we use only one, sometimes both, and sometimes neither. The mission and environment dictate how many.
3) Since we're talking about Gothic Serpent, only the M-134 miniguns were used. Every insert bird also carried two (sometimes 3) Delta snipers. The D-boy snipers used M-25's (accurized M-14's) M-4's and I think a saw a couple SR-25's or AR-10's.
4) While the 160th guys brought two DAP kits with them and even used them for training (to keep currency, etc.) they were never used operationally during Gothic Serpent. For that fact, I don't remember ever seeing an MH-60L using ESSS during my deployment there.
5) The MH-60L's in Gothic Serpent were Army Helo Drab (I've got the photos to prove it). (This I am not too sure of. Everyone else says flat black.) Interestingly the Killer Eggs and 6-Pax (AH-6's and MH-6's) were flat black.
6) Weapons, a personal thing for each crewmember. MP-5's were sometime carried in thigh rigs but were generally stowed up front somewhere. Crewchiefs had M-4 carbines and M-16A2's usually stowed behind the pilot's seats but they were also stowed elsewhere. We stowed them hanging off the webbing on the H-bar directly over the minigun ammo bins. All crewmembers also usually carried at least one pistol (issues M-9, but some had Sigs and 1911's) in a thigh rig or in a vest holster.
8) IFR probes were not used in Gothic Serpent for the same reason as Item 1). And that the only refueling assets were two USMC KC-130's based out of Mombasa Kenya but I think they left when the marines left prior to Gothic Serpent.

I vividly remember that some MH-60L's had the nose radar and some did not. All had the FLIR turret mounts but didn't have FLIR installed for every mission. There were no plume detectors that I saw but each one had nose and tail mounted APR-39 radar detectors.

What are the serial numbers for the two MH-60Ls downed in Mogadishu?
91-26350 and 91-26324

Super 61 was named ????? 91-26324
Super 64 was named 'Venom' 91-26350
Super 68 was named 'Razors Edge'
Super 66 was named 'Gun Slinger'
And then there was 'Southern Comfort' which I'm not sure their operational codename was.

"The aircraft always flew with the cockpit doors off. Super 61 had a hoist mount, but no hoist was installed. It would be a U shaped piece of metal about a foot long and about a foot forward of the right hand engine air inlet. One other thing, the fairings around the main landing gear strut weren't installed on any of the Black hawks in D Company. Cargo Hooks weren't installed in the aircraft either. There was a tube, about 3 inches in diameter installed in its place. The tube had 4 rings (in a clover leaf pattern) attached to it in the center. The system was installed in place of the cargo hook for securing the aircraft during fixed wing transport of the helicopter..." (Pat Powers crew chief Super 65)

For an MH-6J with planks, Cobra Company has a conversion set. It depics a modern helo though, with newer planks. I used the planks from the set to build my MH-6J MELB (in my Showcase III below, along with my MH-60L DAP). The older planksm looked like a park bench seat and also were attached differently.

Here is the Cobra Company set.

Here is a link to a similar topic, "Task Force Ranger "Little Birds" References?", at FineScale Modeler Helo Forum as well. It has some great discussion and links.

Here is a great example of a Littlebird with Op Gothic Serpent style planks, by Avus at FSM.
Avus' MH-6J MELB (scroll to bottom of page.)

Let me know if you need anything else. Between what I have and a few other guys at FSM, we have pretty much figured out the intricacies of Gothic Serpent helos pretty well. The subject comes up often on FSM Helo Forum, check it out.

Damn Gino- Thanks!

I've got an Academy Blackhawk coming and was wondering about a lot these issues.

Thanks again- off to check out the links.

Jim

No problem. Depending on which Academy version you are getting, there are quite a few addittions to make it an accurate L model. The UH-60L kit is actually closer to an A model with a partial HIRSS set-up. The AH-60 DAP (actually an MH-60L DAP, US Military doesn't use the AH-60 designation) is close to an L, but still has A model, narrow, step fairings in front of the landing gear. The L model step fairings were widened by 10" to incorporate roll stabilizer bars in them. Cobra Company makes corrections for all of the above, and then some, as well. Let me know if you need any more help.

wow looks like you got all the info you need lol. well thats what you get for coming on the greatis modelers site there is.good luck with your helicopter or dio.

Graeme

thanks....you nailed it on the head..perfect

I agree - after reading this thread I feel I have enough to model one of these helicopters too. I always wanted to do one in honor of the soldiers who were there...

Gunnie

Glad to help guys. Also glad there is a growing interest in rotorcraft as well. Now lest get to work and see all those Blackhawks and Littlebirds that you guys are going to build. Get gluing.