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Armor/AFV: Axis - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Axis forces during World War II.
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Academy' Tiger
brno465
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Australia
Joined: August 23, 2002
KitMaker: 87 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 08:35 PM UTC
Just got back from the local club meeting, and I picked up Academy's Mid Production Tiger at a decent price.
My question is reguarding when zimmerit became common practice.
The kit has rubber roadwheels which I thought were early production, so what makes this kit "mid production" ?
How does it differ from "early production" ?
You can see where this is leading right ? Yep, I'm trying to chicken out of attempting to replicate zimmerit on a reasonably expensive ( $Oz) kit.
Can this Tiger variant be done without zimmerit or not ? I thought it was used in later production Tigers, but although the kit has the earlier roadwheels, the kit paint schemes all feature zimmerit. Any Ideas?
Thanks
Tim
SS-74
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Vatican City
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 3,271 posts
Armorama: 2,388 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 09, 2002 - 11:02 PM UTC
The most obvious difference is the Lamp on the Tiger, I think the initial/early tiger's lamp location is different from the Mid. One, but since I am not home, I need to check out the reference for this one.

I am not sure if the mid. one has one without Zimmerit, Zimmerit comes to life end of 42 till end of 44, so Mid one fall right into this time period.

When I get home, I can see if there is any further information I can find out. By the way, steel wheeled Tiger is actually not that numerous, most of them even the later one has rubber rimmed wheels.
tankshack
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Virginia, United States
Joined: January 30, 2002
KitMaker: 310 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 01:16 AM UTC
The biggest and most obvious change in the Early to Mid TIger was the new style of commander's cupola. Two other changes made at the start of Mid production were the addition of a pistol port on the side of the turret and a new version of the ammo loading/escape hatch at the turret rear.

Zimmerit is definitely optional on a Mid-Production Tiger. The decision to zim or not is based on the actual production date of the Tiger. Mid production started in July 1943 and Zimmerit application was started in August 1943. So, there's a month in there where the Mid Tigers were not "required" to be coated with zim.

Let me know if you want some more info about the units that received the mid Tiger.

Later,
Tim
leogunner
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: September 16, 2002
KitMaker: 147 posts
Armorama: 109 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 01:26 AM UTC
I think the most obvious differences with the mid production Tiger ,were the new commanders cuppola, thety changed the location of the head lights, and they dropped the shovel mount on the front deck. Of course they also got rid of the Fiefel air cleaners as well. Rubber road wheels are also correct for a mid production. Oh yeah, and they also changed the sighting system so some Tigers had the outside sight opening plugged and welded shut. To zimmerit or not to zimmerit that is the question. The early mid's had none,but they started thatin late '43 i think. Hope this helps.
plstktnkr2
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Maryland, United States
Joined: October 10, 2002
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 309 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:35 AM UTC
there are several differences to the mid tiger from early:
reinforced sight area in mantlet
commanders cupola
driver's "sight holes" plugged
single head light
and i believe different in ternal air cleaner arrangement (2 cleaners from three)
plstktnkr2
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Maryland, United States
Joined: October 10, 2002
KitMaker: 352 posts
Armorama: 309 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 05:39 AM UTC
Also with the cavalier resin zimmerit kits, zim should be no problem
brno465
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Australia
Joined: August 23, 2002
KitMaker: 87 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 07:50 AM UTC
Thanks everyone, I might have to check up on the cavalier resin set - but I did spend an hour or so last night trying "putty and a screwdriver" type zimmerit on an old model. Still not too confident with that tho.....

Had a bit of a dry fit of some of the parts and it looks to be a well thought out kit.
BroAbrams
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Washington, United States
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
Armorama: 1,081 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 04:42 PM UTC
I would pipe up here, since I finished that particular kit a month or so ago. First of all, you'll have to get rid of the mounts for the two headlights on the upper hull. As noted earlier the mid had the headlights changed to a single one on the glacis plate. Also, get rid of the mounts for the S-mine dischargers, as these were deleted.

Another option you might consider adding on yourself is a gas can rack on the rear of the hull, to the left of the exhaust shrouds, just above the storage box.

I would consider replacing the fenders with aluminum foil or lead foil, since the kit ones are just so freakin' hard to modify. Do the same with the tow cables, the kits aren't worth the effort. Try frame hanging wire from a craft store added on to the kit end pieces.

If you got the kit that has the full interior, let me know, I will add more if you do.

try here for some more ideas
http://www.missing-lynx.com/articles/german/mmtiger/mmtiger.htm

Rob
brno465
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Australia
Joined: August 23, 2002
KitMaker: 87 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 06:33 PM UTC
Yes Rob, it is the full interior kit - what else do I need to know ?
Any info is appreciated
BroAbrams
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Washington, United States
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
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Posted: Sunday, November 10, 2002 - 07:20 PM UTC
Okay, first of all, the ammo racks are all wrong. There should be four rounds of ammo across, not three, and there should be four racks deep. The kit provides nothing below the first. The ammo is WAY to big. I scratch built two more racks under the first, but there was no room for the fourth. I bought two sets of Verlinden 88mm ammo for the Flak 36/37 and added them to the racks. The practice rounds added some variety to the kit. Also the used cartridges add a nice touch in the basket.

Move the periscope blocks and stowage bins on the interior of the back of the turret to match with the picture drawn in the middle of the instructions. These drawings are more accurate than what the instructions say anyway, on all aspects of the model.

On the turret floor, scratch build your own gas can rack from strip styrene and add in aftermarket gas cans.

The tow cables were often just thrown on the back off the hull, over the engine covers, or was mounted from the front tow shackles to the rear tow shackles and draped over the hull, and the track changing cable was usually just stowed in the turret bustle. If you leave the track changing cable off, add in some brackets to match the ones pictured at the tank museum website. Glue a short strip of styrene to the hull, allow to dry, then bend over itself, leaving a gap where it is bent. These should be very small.

Under the floor boards of the turret should be two more boxes for ammo stowage. There are two main ribs that run from the front to the back going over the torsion bars, with several structural supports. These are what the battery boxes and the ammo bins sit on. Go tothis site for more information on these strakes.

tiger1.info

Looking down on the turret, the kit turret is symmetrical, but the actual turret is not. The left side of the turret should be bowed out by about a millimeter and a half to accomodate the gunner.

Someone told me verlinden makes the ammo stowage bags for the machine guns. I should have gotten some as the ones in the kit are oversize and there should be many more than the kit provides. The image in the middle of your instruction should give clues as to placement.

The gyroscope is placed to far aft. Remove the positioning mold and move it more towards the front corner.

Be very careful with the placement of the transmission, as it will interfere with the glacis plate fit if it is not pushed down far enough.

The rack for extra track links was a field modification, so use your own judgement on it.

Do not follow the color instructions that come with the kit. Check out the pictures here for more realistic colors, although I understand they are not completely perfect, but they are pretty close. Look under the journal.

http://www.tiger-tank.com/

I wish I had found this site before I did the interior. It's the best site I have found for interior shots.

You might want to add some wires to the fuse box. Make sure and run a wire from the fuse box to the extractor fan.

Something I thought about doing was to modify the "breadbox" beside the driver to open the door on it and show more ammo. Lastly, keep in mind soldiers were never satisfied with what the book says they got. They always picked stuff up along the way. I added in a few potato mashers, a couple of Mausers for the driver and gunner, with accompanying magazine pouches, and a "liberated" Thompson. I modelled a Tiger from sPzrAbt 501 on the eastern front in the winter of 43, so I also added whitewash, but not Zimmerit.

I hope I helped a little.

Rob
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