I am building a AFV Club M-10.I have purchased the Eduard Photo-etch and the Verlinden Detail set. I am not particularly fond of the flat bottom relief cast of the Verlinden engine or the kit supplied band tracks.What manufacturer makes a complete engine and compartment which will fit ,or be reworked ,to fit into this kit?
As for the tracks,I was thinking of getting the AFV club rubber block treads.Are these suitable?Did the M-10 use the end grousers?The machine will be U.S. used and the time will be late 1944 - early 1945.
Also,the Verlinden update has a thick escape hatch and the Eduard has a thin (Photo-
etch) one.Which is more prototypical?The relief on the Verlinden is much better than the flat photo-etch details that get glued to the top of the eduard offering.
If you guys know any other details or corrections that need to be done to this project,please offer them up.Thanks. (:-)
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M-10 Engine and Tracks
jackhammer
Joined: November 12, 2002
KitMaker: 357 posts
Armorama: 310 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:02 PM UTC
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:23 PM UTC
I built this kit and posted my thoughts on it at my website. Perhaps you might find something useful there for your model project.
Gunnie's M10 Tank Destroyer
Gunnie
generalzod
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:29 PM UTC
Jon,the only question of yours I can answer is about the tracks You can use the rubber block tracks(T51) or the rubber chevron(T48) Either one was common As far as the end grousers I have seen some of the M10's with them on WARNING The AFV Club track links DO NOT come with a full set of end grousers You only get 140 of them You would need 158 to do a full set
Chad #:-)
Chad #:-)
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:41 PM UTC
Very nice Gunnie!
Jon, I have the same M-10 and have the AFV Club PE set. Let me know how yours turns out. I don't dare compare mine to Jim's.
Jon, I have the same M-10 and have the AFV Club PE set. Let me know how yours turns out. I don't dare compare mine to Jim's.
WeWillHold
Joined: April 17, 2002
KitMaker: 2,314 posts
Armorama: 1,905 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 12:42 PM UTC
GunTruck
Absolutely beautiful job on your M10--- just a great picture. (I'm sure Jackhammer will enjoy his M10 build as well.)
Quick question, did you make the bedrolls yourself, and if so, can you describe??? Thanks.
Whoops- Sorry Gun Truck, I read your article and it appears the bedrolls are from Verlinden--- I should have read your article before I asked the question.
Absolutely beautiful job on your M10--- just a great picture. (I'm sure Jackhammer will enjoy his M10 build as well.)
Quick question, did you make the bedrolls yourself, and if so, can you describe??? Thanks.
Whoops- Sorry Gun Truck, I read your article and it appears the bedrolls are from Verlinden--- I should have read your article before I asked the question.
jackhammer
Joined: November 12, 2002
KitMaker: 357 posts
Armorama: 310 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:11 PM UTC
Thanks Guys.Yhis place is ever so active!!!!!I posted,checked dioramas,came back and there were 2 replies!Read those,came back and there were 2 more!!!!!!!!!!OUTSTANDING!!!
Now,does anyone know what type of engine the M-10 used?I am using her for a Diorama entitled"Unsung Heros" about mechanics(don't get me started on this one....it's going to be humungous!!!!!)and would like her opened up.Also,the AFV Club photoe-etch-worth the trouble of trying to track it down?Oh,yeah!Gunny....Excellent work!Let me have alot of missing detail to add!Thanks
Now,does anyone know what type of engine the M-10 used?I am using her for a Diorama entitled"Unsung Heros" about mechanics(don't get me started on this one....it's going to be humungous!!!!!)and would like her opened up.Also,the AFV Club photoe-etch-worth the trouble of trying to track it down?Oh,yeah!Gunny....Excellent work!Let me have alot of missing detail to add!Thanks
generalzod
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 3,172 posts
Armorama: 2,495 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:14 PM UTC
Jon,the M10 used a twin GM diesel
Chad
Chad
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:30 PM UTC
Quoted Text
GunTruck
Absolutely beautiful job on your M10--- just a great picture. (I'm sure Jackhammer will enjoy his M10 build as well.)
Quick question, did you make the bedrolls yourself, and if so, can you describe??? Thanks.
Whoops- Sorry Gun Truck, I read your article and it appears the bedrolls are from Verlinden--- I should have read your article before I asked the question.
No, you're right - the bedrolls are tissue. Nothing fancy to tell here, traditional white glue / water / tissue method. Only, I pre-paint the tissue and choose different brands for different textures.
Thanks!
Gunnie
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:36 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks Guys.Yhis place is ever so active!!!!!I posted,checked dioramas,came back and there were 2 replies!Read those,came back and there were 2 more!!!!!!!!!!OUTSTANDING!!!
Now,does anyone know what type of engine the M-10 used?I am using her for a Diorama entitled"Unsung Heros" about mechanics(don't get me started on this one....it's going to be humungous!!!!!)and would like her opened up.Also,the AFV Club photoe-etch-worth the trouble of trying to track it down?Oh,yeah!Gunny....Excellent work!Let me have alot of missing detail to add!Thanks
Well, I built the kit before the Eduard set became available. I used the AFV Club stainless steel set - and I'd refer you to the Eduard set without even seeing it. It really didn't turn out to be worth the bother getting it in the end.
I also used most of Legend Productions Interior Set - which I liked quite a bit - you might want to consider it if you haven't already.
Gunnie
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:39 PM UTC
Jon, welcome aboard!
I know The Tank Workshop makes an engine for the M10...no compartment though.
Do you mean the "duck-billed" end connectors? These fit onto the ends (or sides) of the track to make them wider which enables them to disperse more weight. Like this:
Or do you mean the grousers which were installed directly onto the track for better grippage? Like this:
As far as the escape hatch, I really do not know. I do know the tank destroyers in general had reduced their armor to make the vehicles lighter for more speed. The thickest part was the mantlet which was just a mere 2.25 inches. The hull sides and rear were only 1 inch on the upper, while the upper angles were .75 inch. The thinnest part I know of was the rear deck which was .375 inches. With this in mind, and while not having either set for my M10 to refer to, I could not imagine the bottom hatch being very thick. Perhaps you could thin Verlinden's offering if it "looks" too thick. (only because you say it has better detail)
Here's another review on the kit, next to Gunnie's
:
M10 review by Cookie Sewell
I know The Tank Workshop makes an engine for the M10...no compartment though.
Quoted Text
Did the M-10 use the end grousers?
Do you mean the "duck-billed" end connectors? These fit onto the ends (or sides) of the track to make them wider which enables them to disperse more weight. Like this:
Or do you mean the grousers which were installed directly onto the track for better grippage? Like this:
As far as the escape hatch, I really do not know. I do know the tank destroyers in general had reduced their armor to make the vehicles lighter for more speed. The thickest part was the mantlet which was just a mere 2.25 inches. The hull sides and rear were only 1 inch on the upper, while the upper angles were .75 inch. The thinnest part I know of was the rear deck which was .375 inches. With this in mind, and while not having either set for my M10 to refer to, I could not imagine the bottom hatch being very thick. Perhaps you could thin Verlinden's offering if it "looks" too thick. (only because you say it has better detail)
Here's another review on the kit, next to Gunnie's
:M10 review by Cookie Sewell
Kencelot
Joined: December 27, 2001
KitMaker: 4,268 posts
Armorama: 2,804 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 01:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Now,does anyone know what type of engine the M-10 used?
The M10 used a GM 6046 12 cylinder twin diesel in-line engine. The M10A1 used a Ford GAA 8 cylinder 4 cycle gasoline engine.
Here's a good site with the vitals: M10 General Data
This is about the best site for interior shots as well as the engine: US 3-Inch Gun Motor Carriage
Folgore
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,109 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 12, 2002 - 03:00 PM UTC
Quoted Text
No, you're right - the bedrolls are tissue. Nothing fancy to tell here, traditional white glue / water / tissue method. Only, I pre-paint the tissue and choose different brands for different textures.
Gunnie--I have never tried making my own bedrolls before, but have read how. Do you have to do anything special for the wrinkles, or do they just happen on their own? Yours look really good.
Nic
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 05:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextNo, you're right - the bedrolls are tissue. Nothing fancy to tell here, traditional white glue / water / tissue method. Only, I pre-paint the tissue and choose different brands for different textures.
Gunnie--I have never tried making my own bedrolls before, but have read how. Do you have to do anything special for the wrinkles, or do they just happen on their own? Yours look really good.
Nic
Nope, not really, the wrinkles occur for me naturally during the construction process and tying them off.
Gunnie
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 05:21 AM UTC
Hi Gunnie
Babs is sweet. Excellent job with the kit and article.
When you say you paint the tissue paper first, do you let it dry before rolling?
I've made bedrolls, tarps etc. by wetting the tissue paper with white glue and water, rolling it up (or wetting after rolling) then tying rope around the rolls. I have always painted after the whole mess dries. Any tips you could provide on the prepaint method would be great.
Cheers
Andy
Babs is sweet. Excellent job with the kit and article.
When you say you paint the tissue paper first, do you let it dry before rolling?
I've made bedrolls, tarps etc. by wetting the tissue paper with white glue and water, rolling it up (or wetting after rolling) then tying rope around the rolls. I have always painted after the whole mess dries. Any tips you could provide on the prepaint method would be great.
Cheers
Andy
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 07:01 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gunnie
Babs is sweet. Excellent job with the kit and article.
When you say you paint the tissue paper first, do you let it dry before rolling?
I've made bedrolls, tarps etc. by wetting the tissue paper with white glue and water, rolling it up (or wetting after rolling) then tying rope around the rolls. I have always painted after the whole mess dries. Any tips you could provide on the prepaint method would be great.
Cheers
Andy
Sure - I let it dry before wetting and rolling.
Gunnie's High-Tech Method has be mounting a piece of tissue on a slab of cardboard with double sided tape at the corners. I airbrush the colors I want onto the tissue and let it dry.I have had success rolling the tissue just after airbrushing with acrylics, but this tends to make the fingers messy. Interesting result, though, as if you use a lighter base color it the worn result - looks rather like worn canvas - like when the knees or elbows of your favorite clothes begins to wear out. I don't do that often because US Equipment is plentiful and maintained well. If it's no longer serviceable, it's replaced.
Most of the time, I paint the one side of the tissue a lighter overall color than the other side - simulating the interior of the canvas. If you get creative, there's no end to the effects you can create after rolling it - by bending a corner back a little bit.
Lastly, I also have had success in dipping the roll. This is usually in the non-painted condition where I'm attempting to model a smoother surface, like modern-era tarps. I dip in the same solution I used to wet the bag in the first place, and clip it to a clothes hanger to air dry. The glue smooths out the texture, and allows you to control just how smooth you want the end product to be. Diluting the White Glue in the water allows you to keep the mixture thin and not cake it on.
A variation on hanging the roll to dry on a clothes pin is sliding R/C antenna wire through the center of the roll - like roasting a hot dog over a fire. You can let it dry, paint it, weather it, and then slip it off when done - pinching the ends slightly to close up the tiny little hole left by the R/C wire. This allows you to line up several rolls at a time and take care of them all quickly.
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 07:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I built this kit and posted my thoughts on it at my website. Perhaps you might find something useful there for your model project.
Gunnie's M10 Tank Destroyer
Gunnie
Gunnie--another superb job! The shading is beautiful
. Oh to be so capable! Alas Amigo, I can only ask if the sandbags were made from Milliput? danke
DJ
herberta
Joined: March 06, 2002
KitMaker: 939 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 07:44 AM UTC
Hi Gunnie
Thanks for the great tarp/bedroll tips!
I have a nice little spray bottle I use instead of an airbrush for doing groundwork. I'll try the prepaint method!
Nice touch to have the inner and outer surfaces as different shades. Again, prepainting would make that MUCH easier to do.
I've never heard of prepainting before, and it's a simple/great idea!!
Thanks & Cheers
Andy
Thanks for the great tarp/bedroll tips!
I have a nice little spray bottle I use instead of an airbrush for doing groundwork. I'll try the prepaint method!
Nice touch to have the inner and outer surfaces as different shades. Again, prepainting would make that MUCH easier to do.
I've never heard of prepainting before, and it's a simple/great idea!!
Thanks & Cheers
Andy
jackhammer
Joined: November 12, 2002
KitMaker: 357 posts
Armorama: 310 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:07 AM UTC
Thanks Gents,
On Great Model Webstore the Tank Workshop list has tw0053 M4A2 engine and compartment. It is just after the suggested TWS M-10 engine.It looks the same,just want someone else to confirm before I purchase.
On Great Model Webstore the Tank Workshop list has tw0053 M4A2 engine and compartment. It is just after the suggested TWS M-10 engine.It looks the same,just want someone else to confirm before I purchase.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gunnie--another superb job! The shading is beautiful
danke
DJ
Nope, no Milliput. I don't really use that putty much for anything. Not that I don't like it, though, just not into putty rolls...
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextGunnie--another superb job! The shading is beautiful
danke
DJ
Nope, no Milliput. I don't really use that putty much for anything. Not that I don't like it, though, just not into putty rolls...
Gunnie
So what did you use to make the sand bags?
m1garand
Joined: February 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,248 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextGunnie--another superb job! The shading is beautiful
danke
DJ
Nope, no Milliput. I don't really use that putty much for anything. Not that I don't like it, though, just not into putty rolls...
Gunnie
So what did you use to make the sand bags?
Not to step on Gunnie's toes, but he used the Hobby Fan M10 Accessories' sandbags.
(Just read his page on building the M10) Very informative, by the way.
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 13, 2002 - 08:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted TextQuoted TextGunnie--another superb job! The shading is beautiful
danke
DJ
Nope, no Milliput. I don't really use that putty much for anything. Not that I don't like it, though, just not into putty rolls...
Gunnie
So what did you use to make the sand bags?
Not to step on Gunnie's toes, but he used the Hobby Fan M10 Accessories' sandbags.
(Just read his page on building the M10) Very informative, by the way.
BC---Ah AHA! #:-)
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