Hi guys,

I'm currently hunting around on ebay for a kit of Dragon's 1/35 Panther II. But I also happened to notice that there were some "Panther F" models from Dragon for sale. Now, is this the same kit? And if not, which one is better?

Cheers,
Soren Petersen
Galway, Ireland

Soren:

I saw a Panter II on Ebay yesterday.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/DML-Dragon1-35-scale-Panther-II_W0QQitemZ6007151846QQcategoryZ2588QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Dont know which is better. I have liked every Dragon kit so far

Good luck

-both are ficticious Panthers or "Paper Panthers" whatever you want to call them - they never existed. The Panther F was merely a new turret design fitted onto an existing Panther G (late) hull. There is no evidence that this variant ever saw any action. The turret, however, was constructed.

The Panther II is complete fiction, with a heavier re-designed suspension/chassis and lower hull. I believe it would have been up-armed to a larger caliber main gun as well. I am recalling all of this strictly from memory and am open to correction.

- meaning since they both didn't exist - there is no need to worry about accuracy, etc. of the kit. I had the Panther F (sold it) it looked like a fairly easy build.

They are not the same kit. Actung Panzer has a few articles that explain the differences between the Panther Ausf F and the Panther II: http://www.achtungpanzer.com/panth2.htm
http://www.achtungpanzer.com/pz4.htm#panther

I have both kits and will look at them this weekend and see what the difference is. I think that the Panther II kit has the smaller turret and steel roadwheels.

The Panther Ausf F was planned to start production in March 0f 1945 but never got started,one prototype was built. Thicker armor was about the only change. Lets see, what was happening in German to cancel production in March '45?

The Panther II was a paper project only, never built, not even a prototype. It was to be a heavier Panther with more armor and a better gun.

Hi Jim,

That would be great. Did you already build the kits?
If you can get back to me Monday with a 'review', that would be grand.

Cheers,
Soren

[quote]I have both kits and will look at them this weekend and see what the difference is. I think that the Panther II kit has the smaller turret and steel roadwheels.

I must add this qualification about the Panther II: There was at least a partial prototype of the vehicle as one hull was completed. In fact, it sits about 40 miles south of me at the Patton Museum at Fort Knox. This hull predated the Panther G hull (in fact, some of the features, such as the straightened side profile, made it into the Panther G) and was an attempt by the designers to make common some of the subassemblies in the Panther and the King Tiger that was then in development (wheels, suspension, rear deck plate IIRC). Additionally, the glacis plate was increased to 100mm. The prototype hull also sports the King Tiger's transport tracks. No Panther II turret was ever mounted on the hull. The vehicle now sports a late G turret but I believe that was mounted postwar by either the Brits or the Yanks.
Regarding the Panther F, the primary difference between that and the G was to have been the turret (the famous schmalturm), although the roof armor above the radio operator and driver was slightly redesigned and thickened (maybe those hatches too, but I'm not sure). Panther F hulls were seen and photographed in the jigs at wars end, side by side G hulls, so quite likely we would have seen the typical mixing of features common to many German vehicles, in this case F hulls with G turrets until the schmalturms came on line. One important thing to keep in mind is that for a long time (as usual, I think Jentz punctured this myth) it was thought that the turrets intended for the Panther II and the F were the same. We now know that these were entirely different designs, even though they shared some superficial similarities. I may be wrong, as I have neither kit, but I believe there are questions surrounding the accuracy of the turrets in both kits. Sorry I can't expound on what those issues are.

You're absolutely right Steve! I have visited the Patton museum and the Panther II is awesome! Even with the late G turret, the tank is very much alive. I remember in one article I read that 2 Panther F's were completed and possibly one did see service but that cannot be confirmed.

Both kits are nice but the PII did have a slightly different turret while although both look the same. With the massive mantlet and gun, the PII will look apart from the Panther F, just make sure the Panther F is assembled without the steel wheels unlike what the directions instruct you to do (which both are supplied in the kit), the original Panther wheels are correct.

Jeff

With regards to the build of teh Panther II? The turret should be junked, it is well over scale, the rear engine deck will need some work, for instance the round covers over teh radiators will need replacing with two Tiger II ones. The crew heater would not have been on the PII, so no matter what that has to go. the wheels are terrible and should be replaced with the Tamiya Steel Wheels, although you will need to adjust the PII's axels to get the wheels to line up, not a big job and not hard, and one that is well worthwhile if you want to fit better wheels.

The actual build of the hull/rear plate is ok, no major worries there. The tools are hopeless and the track hangers need replacing as well, some photo etch ones would work wonders here.

If however you can live with the short comings then go for it, what i think needs changing you may want to leave. Thats the best thing about this hobby, personel choice.

Regards from the Swamp

Hawkeye

Soren:

If you find the kit and build it let me know. Like to hear about it

Thanks for the input. I've now bought the Panther II version from e-bay and look forward to building it. I keep you posted on how it's going.

Cheers,
Soren