I've been asked this by a modeller whose sources are Cdn (3 Rivers Rgt) veterans. These vets say their commander had a HVSS Sherman III that was a howitzer tank while in Holland '45. Conventional wisdom says that this was more likely, an M4 (105) w/HVSS. Were kits available for fitters to convert others? WOuld it have even been done given the supplies of howitzer tanks?

It would have been a Capt. Ian Grant was 2 ic of C squadron and received one of these as his command tank, named CYCLOPS. Capt Grant was awarded the DSO (although recommended for the VC).

Heck, I've never even seen a HVSS M4A2 (mostly finished at Fisher) in combat except with the Soviets.

ATH (according to Hunnicutt), of the 4000 or so howitzer tanks (all made at Chrysler), there were 800 M4 w/HVSS and about 2600 M4A3 w/HVSS. I've never heard of any other chassis being converted to howitzer tanks.

Can anyone illuminate this for me?

Rgds,
RC

I have not seen any other reference to HVSS equiped Shermans being used by Canadians in WW II. The 105 armed production models were the M4 and M4A3. I know we had the M4 (IB). The HVSS A2s were acquired after the end of the war(A3s used in Korea, all with 76MM guns). As far a convertion kits I cannot see it but anything is possible.
I have run across other "technical" descrepancies when talking with vets.

Roy, I found this......

http://www.track-link.net/articles/62

Thanks Taylor: That's the exact model that someone cited as evidence. Personally I think it's historically impossible. Only 7 or 20 (depending on the sources) HVSS M4A2s were given to the Canadians in WW2. And these had the 47 degree hull (like the DML or Academy kit). Also there were no 105mm kits to convert other hull types. From Hunnicutt, only M4 and M4A3 hulls were manufactured as 105mm.

I'm pretty satisfied that "Cyclops" was an M4 (105) with HVSS.

Just to add to the confusion over "Cyclops", it's cited in the following link as an M4A1 with 105mm turret!

http://www.missing-lynx.com/reviews/allied/starmerdecal_pbrown.html.

The modeller of the M4A2 105mm HVSS 'Cyclops' is known to a few old hands on this site,has personal (family) connections to the Three Rivers and at the time of the model had access to regimental documents & diaries; and the producer of the decal sheet with an M4A1 105 ( Mike Starmer) is well known for his detailed research. Who's right at this distance in time, or was there more than one "Cyclops"?

After looking at that "M4A2(105)", I can't imagine that they would have gone through all of that trouble to convert the old hull to HVSS, let alone throw a 105 turret on it. I mean, isn't the HVSS conversion a depot level job? Other than the Israelis, I've never seen HVSS put on the old hulls. That doesn't mean it wasn't done, but it certainly wouldn't have been common.

If there was only a picture of the real thing...

Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures