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Michael Wittman obsession
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 07:16 AM UTC
Ben (Wildcard) and I were having a discussion yesterday about everyone's fixation to do a Michael Wittman Tiger tank. I couldn't get the name right yesterday, kept thinking Barkhorn whom I knew to be one of the Luftwaffe's great aces. It's SGT Ernst Barkman. He was with the 2nd SS PAnzer Regiment in a Panther tank. I first read aout some of his exploits around Normandy several years ago. After I talked with Ben, I was reading an article in this months World War II magazine about his exploits in the December '44 adventure in the Ardennes. I think he may have surviived the war. I also know he was in combat in Russia knocking out a dozen or so tanks (?). So one of you guys I'm sure has a wealth of info on him. I've got a Panther D kit unbuilt. I know he used a G in the Ardennes (at least that's what the painting in the article has him in). Does anyone have any schemes, numbers, artist renderings of any of his vehicles. If he was in a Panther D that would be wonderful. If you never heard of this guy you should check him out. The guy was phenomenal.
thedutchie
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 1,299 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 07:25 AM UTC
Thanks for the heads up Steve.
here is some infoI found
Other than Wittman who had 138 kills, there was also Hans Bolter who had 139 kills.
Otto Carius is another great German Tiger Ace.
Barkmann (Das Reich) 108 tanks
Koerner (sSSPzAbt503) 100
Knispel (sPzAbt 503) 102
Bix (4th Pz Div) 75
Bobby Woll (LAH) 81
Warmbrunn (LAH) 51
Wendorff (LAH) 58
Ernst ( 519 sPzJg Abt) 55 (14 in 1 day w/ 21 shots from his 'Honisse.')
Knarth (sPzAbt 505) 68
Kerscher ( " 502) 100
Litzke ( " " 509) 76
vonRohr (7th Pz Div) 58
von Ribbentrop (LAH) 61
A few I've found.........
Strippel (1st Pz Div) 64
here is some infoI found
Quoted Text
The PzKpfw V ausf. G was also known as the German "Panther" tank. One of the best tanks to emerge during WWII, the tank on this shirt was commanded by tank ace Ernst Barkman- 4/SS-Pz. Rgt.2, 2nd SS-Pz Div. "Das Reich".
Other than Wittman who had 138 kills, there was also Hans Bolter who had 139 kills.
Otto Carius is another great German Tiger Ace.
Barkmann (Das Reich) 108 tanks
Koerner (sSSPzAbt503) 100
Knispel (sPzAbt 503) 102
Bix (4th Pz Div) 75
Bobby Woll (LAH) 81
Warmbrunn (LAH) 51
Wendorff (LAH) 58
Ernst ( 519 sPzJg Abt) 55 (14 in 1 day w/ 21 shots from his 'Honisse.')
Knarth (sPzAbt 505) 68
Kerscher ( " 502) 100
Litzke ( " " 509) 76
vonRohr (7th Pz Div) 58
von Ribbentrop (LAH) 61
A few I've found.........
Strippel (1st Pz Div) 64
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 07:50 AM UTC
Personally my favorite is Leon Wojtynowski I don't know if he was an 'Ace' or not, but he is credited with Deep Sixing Wittman....Jim 
EasyOff
Joined: January 20, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 08:03 AM UTC
LOL Jim :-)
MrMox
Joined: July 18, 2003
KitMaker: 3,377 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 08:07 AM UTC
:-)
WildCard
Joined: May 23, 2005
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 08:07 AM UTC
Steve, Here's a picture and link I found about Barkmann.
http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=108
Not sure if this one is accurate...but here's a model of Barmann.
www.flyingmule.com/ products/CG-US60204
More...
http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/more.php?ProdID=26
Photos:
http://www.geocities.com/alkantolga/panzerace/photos.htm
WC
http://www.battlefront.co.nz/Article.asp?ArticleID=108
Not sure if this one is accurate...but here's a model of Barmann.
www.flyingmule.com/ products/CG-US60204
More...
http://www.directart.co.uk/mall/more.php?ProdID=26
Photos:
http://www.geocities.com/alkantolga/panzerace/photos.htm
WC
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:21 AM UTC
If you're interested in building one of Barkmann's Panthers check out the latest news story here on the site about the newest Echelon decal releases. His set for Panthers includes markings for 2 of Barkmann's rides, including a "D" and an "A". Here is a quote from the Echelon site:
As for what he had during the Bulge, this is just my opinion but I would guess he had a "G". I'm basing this mainly on the fact that Das Reich was pretty much decimated in Normandy and the retreat across France. Being SS they were probably re-equiped with the latest equipment. Also in all the pics I have and have seen of the Bulge the vast majority of Panthers were "G's".
Cheers guys,
Mike
Quoted Text
The second highlight of this sheet is the two Ernst Barkmann vehicles. One is a late Ausf. D and the other an Ausf. A ("Barkmann's Corner", in Normandy). Together with two other DR panthers, they make up the DR lot featured in this sheet.
As for what he had during the Bulge, this is just my opinion but I would guess he had a "G". I'm basing this mainly on the fact that Das Reich was pretty much decimated in Normandy and the retreat across France. Being SS they were probably re-equiped with the latest equipment. Also in all the pics I have and have seen of the Bulge the vast majority of Panthers were "G's".
Cheers guys,
Mike
WildCard
Joined: May 23, 2005
KitMaker: 945 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
this is just my opinion but I would guess he had a "G"
Mike, what type of "G" do you think? Would it be early or late "G"? Also, on the in the Echlon decals does it show Brakmann's "A" or "D" with zimmerit or not?
WC
RedLeg
Joined: April 30, 2005
KitMaker: 746 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:47 AM UTC
You might want to check out this site the owner is trying to recreate Ernst Barkmanns famous "424" in the St. Lo area of Normandy July 1944.
Using dio's should be pretty good when done lots of links to!!
Ernst Barkmann
redleg
Using dio's should be pretty good when done lots of links to!!
Ernst Barkmann
redlegblaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:50 AM UTC
Thanks for the info guys. I checked out the decal site and they didn't have the set mentioned. read the link wildcard put on, it's for a game but as you scroll down it tells of Barkman's exploits in a village in the "bocage aptly named in a Painting (the one Wildcard displays) Barkman's Corner. So, if anyone knows the number he used on his "D" version which was on the Russian front, I would be obliged. As to color scheme , I would probably go with a yellow / green unless someone knows better.I know in the Ardennes it was 401 on a Panther G color scheme being a brown over yellow
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, November 17, 2005 - 09:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike, what type of "G" do you think? Would it be early or late "G"? Also, on the in the Echlon decals does it show Brakmann's "A" or "D" with zimmerit or not?
Looking through some of my books it appears to be somewhat of a mixed bag when looking at pics of DR Panthers. They are all KO'd and many are snow covered, on a couple you can see the raised crew compartment heater on the rear deck and chinless mantlet, on another one you see the mantlet with the chin. they all for the most part appear to be without zim. Concerning Barkmann's "A" and "D" the Echelon instructions say they both had zim. I know the "A" would have had it for sure I would like to know where he got his refs for the "D". I'm not doubting Lawrence as I know he is a stickler for accuracy, I'm just curious where his info came from. (I guess I'll e-mail and ask
)Cheers,
Mike
Tankleader
Joined: April 29, 2003
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 05:42 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Personally my favorite is Leon Wojtynowski I don't know if he was an 'Ace' or not, but he is credited with Deep Sixing Wittman....Jim
I thought that the new analysis that was done showed that he was hit from an Air to Ground Rocket from a Typhoon. Someone had actually posted a link to the battlefield study that was done not too long after his body and that of his crew were recovered. There was actually a Regular Army enlisted gunner that had more kills then Wittman and his bunch.
Tanks
Andy
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 06:09 AM UTC
How 'bout Staff Sergeant Lafayette G. Pool? Credited by the 3rd AD with 258 confirmed AFV kills, in a lowly Sherman...
Shaun
I am reading Willi Fey's "Armor Battles of the Waffen SS" right now and some of those guys were insane. Rough, but insane.
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 10:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I checked out the decal site and they didn't have the set mentioned.
Steve, the set is right there on the Echelon home page.
http://pachome1.pacific.net.sg/%7Ekriegsketten/
Look over on the far right where it says "News" and click on the small pic of the set, (the one with the red on it, not the yellow) you can then see pics of the decal sheet and the instructions, which say Barkmann's Panther D was 401.
Quoted Text
I thought that the new analysis that was done showed that he was hit from an Air to Ground Rocket from a Typhoon.
Andy, it's pretty much been proven in the last few years that Wittmann was taken out by a Firefly. Presently there is some debate as to whether it was a Canadian or British tank.
Quoted Text
I am reading Willi Fey's "Armor Battles of the Waffen SS" right now and some of those guys were insane. Rough, but insane.
Yeah, it's a good read, some of the combat stories in there are pretty amazing. Some of the parts I really found interesting were about the beating the Tiger I could take. Not that I didn't believe it before, but to read the accounts was something.
Cheers guys,
Mike
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 12:54 PM UTC
Thanks Mike....found the sheet and other info I wanted. So now it looks like I'll have to track down a Zimmerit sheet on ebay for my kit.
Hohenstaufen
Joined: December 13, 2004
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:18 PM UTC
I was interested to see Brian list "Bobby" Woll seperately. Since he was Wittmann's gunner for much of his career don't the two scores go together? Or did he really knock out 81 tanks after Wittmanns death? He was able to live in relative peace after the war, since many people assumed he had been killed with his old chief. I believe he & Barkmann are still alive. I know that there were Wehrmacht "aces" who were supposed to have knocked out more enemy tanks than Wittmann, but I think I'm correct in saying he also destroyed 142 A/T guns which presumably is why he is usually quoted as the top scorer.
Was Pooles score really 258? That must have been a substantial portion of all the German armour used in the West! How do you define "AFV kills"? Not doubting, just curious.
Was Pooles score really 258? That must have been a substantial portion of all the German armour used in the West! How do you define "AFV kills"? Not doubting, just curious.
keenan
Joined: October 16, 2002
KitMaker: 5,272 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 18, 2005 - 11:32 PM UTC
Steve,
Re: Pool
Did a Google. One site said "AFVs", which could include a lot of halftracks. Another site said "vehicles" which I suppose could include a lot of horses...
Shaun
Re: Pool
Did a Google. One site said "AFVs", which could include a lot of halftracks. Another site said "vehicles" which I suppose could include a lot of horses...
Shaun
Kelley
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,966 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 08:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I was interested to see Brian list "Bobby" Woll seperately. Since he was Wittmann's gunner for much of his career don't the two scores go together?
Steve, I'm not sure on the exact date but sometime in early '44 (probably March, when they returned from the eastern front to form sSS101) Woll was given command of his own Tiger, so he wasn't Wittmann's gunner in Normandy. Now having said that, I'm not sure if some his kills when he was with Wittmann are included in that total or not.
Cheers,
Mike
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 08:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am reading Willi Fey's "Armor Battles of the Waffen SS"
Hi Shaun,
Me too. I just finished Panzer Aces II by Kurowski. It has a 148-page story about Karl
Nicolussi-Leck and his attack through the swamps to Kovel (and abreviated version is in Armor Battles of the Waffen SS). It cites Wehrmacht's Kurt Knispel as, "...by far the world's top "tank killer."
For those of you tread-heads that are interested in shoot 'em up accounts, this book is a grand mix of individual tanker and company leader stories. The almost 500 page book was a breeze to read!
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 19, 2005 - 01:58 PM UTC
I think the germans counted tank type vehicles only. If the American guy got 238 they probably counted any vehicles. Shoot, Barkman shot up or destroyed somewhere btwn a dozen to 2 dozen vehicles at his assault on Manhay. I think they only counted 4 or 5 tanks / tank destroers that he killed. Lord knows what the kill numbers would have been if the Germans counted everything. Probably the numbers would have been as disproportionate as thier Figther plane aces with everone else's.
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