I am planning on adding the air system, some electrical, cab details and put in a lifting position that has yet to be talked about and shown, model wise.
Let me know if you all can help, I want this to be a show winner.
Hosted by Darren Baker
M26 super detailing
M4A1-M4A3
Joined: November 14, 2002
KitMaker: 78 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 02:05 AM UTC
After reading some other posts on the dragon wagon, I started looking through my books and found the Tech manual TM 9-767 on the Dragon Wagon M25. So I am going to super detail the tractor, the manual points out isues that the kit, fails to talk about. I was wondering if anyone out there has done a complex detail on the M26 model and can give me some pointers on what to watch out for, problems and so forth.
I am planning on adding the air system, some electrical, cab details and put in a lifting position that has yet to be talked about and shown, model wise.
Let me know if you all can help, I want this to be a show winner.
I am planning on adding the air system, some electrical, cab details and put in a lifting position that has yet to be talked about and shown, model wise.
Let me know if you all can help, I want this to be a show winner.
BroAbrams
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
Armorama: 1,081 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:32 AM UTC
Will, you have come to the right place. first of all:
http://www.mezzimilitari.it/photofile/photofile.shtml
http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/dragwag/dragwag1.html
http://digilander.libero.it/pmg/images/m25a1/m25a1_01.htm
Secondly, which lifting point are you talking about? Is it the six points where the little crane fits?
There are a number of things you have to scratch build or add PE on. First, the machine gun ammo box racks will have to be done. I just added strip styrene to the sides of the ones the kit provides. There needs to be straps for the blankets over the engine box, and a mount for the M2 .50 cal. Next, replace the gas cans with some better ones out of your spares box, and then add hold down straps to them. The joint between the main cab and the rear of the cab will need a lot of attention. I also added in new straps for the Oxy/Acetylene tanks from strip styrene. Inside the bay where the horn and radiator are there needs to be some wiring on the left hand side (drivers left) running up and down, and two air tubes running to the air horns from the left side of the bay. Underneath, there needs to be a rather large wire running to the hoist control box from the under side of the engine. The brake hoses for the four rear axles of the cab need to be added. The chain could use some cleaning up for the chain drive system, and oil lines need to be added in from the oil tanks on either side of the dollys. The winches are pretty good, except there needs to be springs to hold down the cables onto the winch drum. There needs to be a small chain that leads to the cover of the light hole on the top front of the cab. The big tow bracket that mounts on the front of the cab also needs chains for the pins which hold it on. If you are going to remove this, you will need to add the large peg that it is mounted on to the cab.
The a-frame brass tubes should be drilled out to fit pins in. The plastic pieces that fit in them should also be drilled to match and pins made from wire added. Something else I did to this piece was to cut off the little pins on the end that hold it in the eyes on the a-frame and drill holes to put more pins in. Unless you bought the cab only kit, in which case the parts for all this are included. The instructions don't say this about the fifth wheel, but they are coated with thick black grease to help the trailer pivot on the raised area on top and in the hole in the middle.
On the trailer, the tie downs for the rear ramps need to be replaced, the PE sets usually have somthing better than the chain supplied.
One note I should add is that there are not many pictures where the crane is installed, so unless you are showing a tire changing, it should be stowed. Many times it was just carried in the middle bay of the trailer rather than put it away inside the boxes on the sides of the trailer. A good supply of hold down chain was part of the issue equipment. Two one inch chains about seven and a half feet long with clawhooks on one end and pear shackles on the other, and four 3/4" chains fifteen feet long with clawhooks on both ends. There was also one or two 1/2" tow chains with clawhooks added in these would vary in length. Which brings up a tidbit of info I like to share. If you have a Hobby Lobby nearby or a craft jewelry store, you can usually find jewelry chain in there pretty cheap.
Leave the cab off to paint it.
Anything else you guys can think of?
Rob
http://www.mezzimilitari.it/photofile/photofile.shtml
http://www.kithobbyist.com/AFVInteriors/dragwag/dragwag1.html
http://digilander.libero.it/pmg/images/m25a1/m25a1_01.htm
Secondly, which lifting point are you talking about? Is it the six points where the little crane fits?
There are a number of things you have to scratch build or add PE on. First, the machine gun ammo box racks will have to be done. I just added strip styrene to the sides of the ones the kit provides. There needs to be straps for the blankets over the engine box, and a mount for the M2 .50 cal. Next, replace the gas cans with some better ones out of your spares box, and then add hold down straps to them. The joint between the main cab and the rear of the cab will need a lot of attention. I also added in new straps for the Oxy/Acetylene tanks from strip styrene. Inside the bay where the horn and radiator are there needs to be some wiring on the left hand side (drivers left) running up and down, and two air tubes running to the air horns from the left side of the bay. Underneath, there needs to be a rather large wire running to the hoist control box from the under side of the engine. The brake hoses for the four rear axles of the cab need to be added. The chain could use some cleaning up for the chain drive system, and oil lines need to be added in from the oil tanks on either side of the dollys. The winches are pretty good, except there needs to be springs to hold down the cables onto the winch drum. There needs to be a small chain that leads to the cover of the light hole on the top front of the cab. The big tow bracket that mounts on the front of the cab also needs chains for the pins which hold it on. If you are going to remove this, you will need to add the large peg that it is mounted on to the cab.
The a-frame brass tubes should be drilled out to fit pins in. The plastic pieces that fit in them should also be drilled to match and pins made from wire added. Something else I did to this piece was to cut off the little pins on the end that hold it in the eyes on the a-frame and drill holes to put more pins in. Unless you bought the cab only kit, in which case the parts for all this are included. The instructions don't say this about the fifth wheel, but they are coated with thick black grease to help the trailer pivot on the raised area on top and in the hole in the middle.
On the trailer, the tie downs for the rear ramps need to be replaced, the PE sets usually have somthing better than the chain supplied.
One note I should add is that there are not many pictures where the crane is installed, so unless you are showing a tire changing, it should be stowed. Many times it was just carried in the middle bay of the trailer rather than put it away inside the boxes on the sides of the trailer. A good supply of hold down chain was part of the issue equipment. Two one inch chains about seven and a half feet long with clawhooks on one end and pear shackles on the other, and four 3/4" chains fifteen feet long with clawhooks on both ends. There was also one or two 1/2" tow chains with clawhooks added in these would vary in length. Which brings up a tidbit of info I like to share. If you have a Hobby Lobby nearby or a craft jewelry store, you can usually find jewelry chain in there pretty cheap.
Leave the cab off to paint it.
Anything else you guys can think of?
Rob
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 04:48 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I was wondering if anyone out there has done a complex detail on the M26 model and can give me some pointers on what to watch out for, problems and so forth.
I am planning on adding the air system, some electrical, cab details and put in a lifting position that has yet to be talked about and shown, model wise.
Let me know if you all can help, I want this to be a show winner.
Gunnie's Dragon Wagon
I did a lot of the work you're asking about to my DW when it first came out - some 300 additional pieces - DW's are pretty overwhelming to try and take in all at once. It's won many shows, but I don't think it's because of all the extras added to it - you have to build the model cleanly first. Virtually every DW I've looked at has serious and basic problems that the modeler didn't bother to address - in haste to add some fiddly bit to it - like not removing the seams on the tires. I see this and look somewhere else, quite frankly. There's a lot of model in that box and I spent a really long time on it.
Gunnie
BroAbrams
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
Armorama: 1,081 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:07 AM UTC
Gunnie, I saw that DW when I first started looking for info on the kit and was amazed by it. I even kept some of the pictures for reference. But I had no idea whose it was till now, so good job!!
Did you use dry transfers on it? And where did you get the clawhooks for the chains?
Rob
Did you use dry transfers on it? And where did you get the clawhooks for the chains?
Rob
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:14 AM UTC
Yes Rob & thank you very much!
I used a combination of water-slide and D/T's at that time. Back in 1997 and 1998 I was still fumbling around with both - as the selection wasn't as deep for D/T's as today. I'm considering cranking out a new DW - only with a modified semi-trailer (M15A1) - and plan on going all D/T with it. I'm debating a conversion to the soft-cab tractor too.
I loath Tamiya armor decals - and set them all aside when I built my model. I really like Italeri's thin decals - but a DW they've never done.
(Wonder what that would look like...)
Are you going to put a model load on your DW?
Gunnie
I used a combination of water-slide and D/T's at that time. Back in 1997 and 1998 I was still fumbling around with both - as the selection wasn't as deep for D/T's as today. I'm considering cranking out a new DW - only with a modified semi-trailer (M15A1) - and plan on going all D/T with it. I'm debating a conversion to the soft-cab tractor too.
I loath Tamiya armor decals - and set them all aside when I built my model. I really like Italeri's thin decals - but a DW they've never done.
(Wonder what that would look like...)
Are you going to put a model load on your DW?
Gunnie
BroAbrams
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
Armorama: 1,081 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:17 AM UTC
Yes, I replied rather sheepishly, a Hellcat. 
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 05:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, I replied rather sheepishly, a Hellcat.
Hmmmm, well.....
You'd only be the second guy crazy enough to park a HellCat on his DW semi-trailer that I've seen. Me thinks this a mighty fine selection!
Gunnie #:-)
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 07:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I loath Tamiya armor decals - and set them all aside when I built my model. I really like Italeri's thin decals - but a DW they've never done.
Gunnie
Gunnie---I love the DW Babe decal. Have you no sentimentality?
DJ #:-)
thebear
Joined: November 15, 2002
KitMaker: 3,960 posts
Armorama: 3,579 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 07:56 AM UTC
I've been working on my dragon wagon for the last few weeks ,I find that the Royal set of PE is really worth the price ,but there is still alot to do from scratch..Just take it piece by piece ..I'm using the tech manual along with Allies &Axis issue #3 ,Tamiya Model magazine from oct/nov 2000 along with lots of pictures on the internet to build this kit..I'm taking it slow and trying to add as much of the wiring as possible underneath..As for the tires I don't think I have ever sanded so much in my life but it really makes a big difference ,take the time .I even wore down the front tires more than the rest because these beasts were nose heavy..Keep us up to date on how the kit is doing ...I'll do the same ...By the way anyone have any good pictures of the hose and wiring on the trailer? I could use a few clear pictures.
Richard
Richard
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I loath Tamiya armor decals - and set them all aside when I built my model. I really like Italeri's thin decals - but a DW they've never done.
Gunnie
Gunnie---I love the DW Babe decal. Have you no sentimentality?
DJ #:-)
Actually - if you're a fan of Pin-Ups like me - consider getting a couple of decal sheets offered at the Starship Modeler Store. They come in two sizes, and are gorgeous! They're meant for modelers who like to decorate their StarFury Fighters from Bablyon 5 - but they're suited for anything else. If they had been available when I built my DW before - I'd surely have found a way to use them. Tamiya's "Babe" is nice - but these are way nicer!
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Friday, November 22, 2002 - 08:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextQuoted Text
I loath Tamiya armor decals - and set them all aside when I built my model. I really like Italeri's thin decals - but a DW they've never done.
Gunnie
Gunnie---I love the DW Babe decal. Have you no sentimentality?
DJ #:-)
Gunnie--very nice!
danke
DJ
Actually - if you're a fan of Pin-Ups like me - consider getting a couple of decal sheets offered at the Starship ModelerStore. They come in two sizes, and are gorgeous! They're meant for modelers who like to decorate their StarFury Fighters from Bablyon 5 - but they're suited for anything else. If they had been available when I built my DW before - I'd surely have found a way to use them. Tamiya's "Babe" is nice - but these are way nicer!
Gunnie
M4A1-M4A3
Joined: November 14, 2002
KitMaker: 78 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 04:14 AM UTC
Don't let the low rank full you. I just found this site. Their is no other way than to build them clean and accurate in every aspect.
If you do not have the time to do it right, do not do it at all, that is the way I think.
If you do not have the time to do it right, do not do it at all, that is the way I think.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 05:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Don't let the low rank full you. I just found this site. Their is no other way than to build them clean and accurate in every aspect.
If you do not have the time to do it right, do not do it at all, that is the way I think.
Those are fine sentiments, but you might find that different modelers take different approaches in their modeling efforts. Everyday I see all degrees of modeling skill and talent - the same with notions of accuracy and detail. Some guys think they nail everything, some don't care to. Some modelers think they're much better than their displayed works show, and others are indeed better than what they've shown.
I will continue to stress that a modeler just have fun doing what they choose to do to a model. Just because I prefer a different path is not an indicator that they should do so too - and I certainly don't feel the need to profess that here. Your statement above could be misconstrued as such. No one here bases any "indicator" of modeling skill by the number of posts at Armorama.com either. I certainly don't think my number of posts mirrors my modeling skill level or experience.
If you open up a thread to sharing a model project - then have fun and share it with all - and expect different viewpoints to interject themselves from time to time. There are many ways to build models and enjoy them - as many as there are modelers it seems...
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 05:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextDon't let the low rank full you. I just found this site. Their is no other way than to build them clean and accurate in every aspect.
If you do not have the time to do it right, do not do it at all, that is the way I think.
Those are fine sentiments, but you might find that different modelers take different approaches in their modeling efforts. Everyday I see all degrees of modeling skill and talent - the same with notions of accuracy and detail. Some guys think they nail everything, some don't care to. Some modelers think they're much better than their displayed works show, and others are indeed better than what they've shown.
I will continue to stress that a modeler just have fun doing what they choose to do to a model. Just because I prefer a different path is not an indicator that they should do so too - and I certainly don't feel the need to profess that here. Your statement above could be misconstrued as such. No one here bases any "indicator" of modeling skill by the number of posts at Armorama.com either. I certainly don't think my number of posts mirrors my modeling skill level or experience.
If you open up a thread to sharing a model project - then have fun and share it with all - and expect different viewpoints to interject themselves from time to time. There are many ways to build models and enjoy them - as many as there are modelers it seems...
Gunnie
Gunnie--the Starship page is superb. Do I order the unspecifiec size or go with 1/48 for my 1/35 models?
thanks
DJ
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:04 AM UTC
DJ - I purchased both sizes of the "Cheesecake" Decal Sheet. The largest decal on the 48th scale sheet isn't much more than a half-inch in width - comparable to the "Babe" on Tamiya's DW decal sheet. The smaller sheet, naturally, are smaller versions. Both would look good on 35th scale subjects as they could fit different sized vehicles.
For WW II Aircraft modelers - these sheets would be even better for Nose Art...
Gunnie
For WW II Aircraft modelers - these sheets would be even better for Nose Art...
Gunnie
210cav
Joined: February 05, 2002
KitMaker: 6,149 posts
Armorama: 4,573 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
DJ - I purchased both sizes of the "Cheesecake" Decal Sheet. The largest decal on the 48th scale sheet isn't much more than a half-inch in width - comparable to the "Babe" on Tamiya's DW decal sheet. The smaller sheet, naturally, are smaller versions. Both would look good on 35th scale subjects as they could fit different sized vehicles.
For WW II Aircraft modelers - these sheets would be even better for Nose Art...
Gunnie
Gunnie--got it. They are super decals!
thanks
DJ
jackhammer
Joined: November 12, 2002
KitMaker: 357 posts
Armorama: 310 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:12 AM UTC
Awesome details,suggestions and references.I am going to get the pinups for my DW.they may not be proto-typical but,they look good!I hear alot about this Tech manual,where can I get this "must have"?
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 06:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Awesome details,suggestions and references.I am going to get the pinups for my DW.they may not be proto-typical but,they look good!I hear alot about this Tech manual,where can I get this "must have"?
A few years back when I built mine, I purchased the Tech Manual from Portrayal Press, and paid $70 bucks for it. I don't recommend doing that unless you really gotta have a TM to add to a library collection. After that lunacy, I used it to start my own, just to make myself feel a little better about the purchase.
There is a new reference book that you can get for under $20 bucks that does just fine to aid you in building a nice DW if you choose to add more detail. I like it. It's from The Military Machine. In addition to the TMM001 Dragon Wagon title, they also have a nice book on the FAMO. VLS Corp lists it at $14.95
Gunnie
M4A1-M4A3
Joined: November 14, 2002
KitMaker: 78 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 07:41 AM UTC
I mean't no ill feelings in any way. If I jumped the gun, my bad. I took your first post as a slam that no one builds clean model. But I was mistaken and for this I am sorry.
On a new note I will keep you all up to date on the M25 I am in the process of taking pictures to show how it is going. I used a rechargeable dremel tool with a course drum to remove the seam from the tires (first time with this tool) was very surprised on how it worked gave the effect of cupping in area and over all road wear.
On a new note I will keep you all up to date on the M25 I am in the process of taking pictures to show how it is going. I used a rechargeable dremel tool with a course drum to remove the seam from the tires (first time with this tool) was very surprised on how it worked gave the effect of cupping in area and over all road wear.
GunTruck
Joined: December 01, 2001
KitMaker: 5,885 posts
Armorama: 3,799 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 09:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I mean't no ill feelings in any way. If I jumped the gun, my bad. I took your first post as a slam that no one builds clean model. But I was mistaken and for this I am sorry.
On a new note I will keep you all up to date on the M25 I am in the process of taking pictures to show how it is going. I used a rechargeable dremel tool with a course drum to remove the seam from the tires (first time with this tool) was very surprised on how it worked gave the effect of cupping in area and over all road wear.
Wow - really - hmmm. I did mean what I said, though. That is a typical characteristic of the dozen or so completed DW models I've seen over the years, though.
(I froze my tires in the Freezer to make the wheel harder and easier to sand the seam away...)
No offense taken - I sent you a Private Message.
Gunnie
M4A1-M4A3
Joined: November 14, 2002
KitMaker: 78 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 02:59 PM UTC
need help...... the throttle cable for the rear winches I have a photo of it from the handle to the back side of the rear winch, where does it go from there, I know it ends up in the engine bay but does it drap in the winch housing or just fall behind and go under the cab. 
BroAbrams
Joined: October 02, 2002
KitMaker: 1,546 posts
Armorama: 1,081 posts
Posted: Monday, November 25, 2002 - 03:19 PM UTC
Will, check your email, I sent a couple pics
Rob
Rob
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