Matt
Hosted by Darren Baker
M4A2 , M4A3 Trouble
Sherman_67
Joined: May 08, 2005
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:29 PM UTC
Would an M4A2 and a M4A3 go togather good like driving side by side each other
Matt
Matt
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 12:41 PM UTC
I have a pic of A2s and A3s in the PTO. However I believe due to the different maintinence and logistics that they would not be commonly serving in the same unit together
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 03:31 PM UTC
An interesting scenario could be Soviet M4A2s (late model, 76 or 75mm turrets, large hatches, 47 degree hulls, VVS or HVSS)
meeting US units with M4A3s near the end of hostilities. How about that?
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Sunday, November 27, 2005 - 07:23 PM UTC
Quoted Text
(late model, 76 or 75mm turrets, large hatches, 47 degree hulls, VVS or HVSS)
Never seen a 75mm 47degree hull with HVSS. I guess you were just listing all 'options', but not combinations?
Cheers
Brad
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
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Posted: Monday, November 28, 2005 - 04:54 AM UTC
Hi Bradley:
You're right. My stuff was a little confusing there.
I've only seen one picture of a 75mm gun tank w/HVSS and it was an M4A3, in an Italian depot waiting to be shipped to the Pacific after the end of European hostilities.
The only M4A2 HVSS in Soviet service I've seen are with the T23 76mm turret. There may have been 75mm late M4A2s w/HVSS but I've not seen any pictured.
So to clarify, here are possible Soviet M4A2s.
76mm w/HVSS, late hull, no applique
75mm w/VVS, late hull, dry stowage (applique)
76mm w/VVS, late hull, no applique
Slightly possible (as these were shipped there too)
75mm w/VVS early hull, dry stowage (applique)
You're right. My stuff was a little confusing there.
I've only seen one picture of a 75mm gun tank w/HVSS and it was an M4A3, in an Italian depot waiting to be shipped to the Pacific after the end of European hostilities.
The only M4A2 HVSS in Soviet service I've seen are with the T23 76mm turret. There may have been 75mm late M4A2s w/HVSS but I've not seen any pictured.
So to clarify, here are possible Soviet M4A2s.
76mm w/HVSS, late hull, no applique
75mm w/VVS, late hull, dry stowage (applique)
76mm w/VVS, late hull, no applique
Slightly possible (as these were shipped there too)
75mm w/VVS early hull, dry stowage (applique)
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Monday, November 28, 2005 - 05:41 PM UTC
Quoted Text
75mm w/VVS, late hull, dry stowage (applique)
Whoa! Never knew of this one either! Seems the old Tamiya M4A3 could have been built with the applique. Thought the latest model with applique would have been the composite hull...
Thanks for the info
Brad
toadman1
Vendor
Joined: July 20, 2004
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Posted: Monday, November 28, 2005 - 05:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
75mm w/VVS, late hull, dry stowage (applique)
Whoa! Never knew of this one either! Seems the old Tamiya M4A3 could have been built with the applique. Thought the latest model with applique would have been the composite hull...
Thanks for the info
Brad
75mm w/VVSS, late hull, dry stowage (applique) only refers to the M4A2, not the M4A3.
Chris "toadman" Hughes
Toadman's Tank Pictures
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
75mm w/VVSS, late hull, dry stowage (applique) only refers to the M4A2, not the M4A3.
Shyeah, if only I read the entire post... Can get a lil excitable...
Thanks Toad 
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 12:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You're right. My stuff was a little confusing there.
No Roy, It is not your answer that is confusing, it's the Sherman variety that is....
:-) . Unfortunatly the Sherman virus seeems to be a very persistent one.. I have for years avoided building Shermans, with exeption of a M-10 Achilles some years ago. Then I built a Firefly, just as an inbetween, and now I'm eyeing up the M4A2 Marines Sherman in my stash, and I even bought a book on Shermans..... 
"The Sherman Tank" by Rodger Ford. I know it's not Hunnicut, but he, I'm not rich enough for that ( the one on eBay is now up to $180).
Cheers
Henk
greatbrit
Joined: May 14, 2003
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 02:18 AM UTC
Henk,
you need to get 'British and American tanks of WW2' by Chamberlain and Ellis.
You will see just how many variants of Shermans were produced. When you have taken that in try the churchill pages!
you need to get 'British and American tanks of WW2' by Chamberlain and Ellis.
You will see just how many variants of Shermans were produced. When you have taken that in try the churchill pages!
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 - 05:17 AM UTC
Henk:
In the US, we have something called the "inter library loan" system whereby I can make a request at my local municipal library for practically any book published. They send the request into some sort of clearinghouse, and the book, if it is in any library in the US, will be shipped to my local library, available for me to check out for 3 or 6 weeks. Free, too.
I got several Hunnicutt books like that. Not as good as owning but you can see the actual thing.
When the copy of Hunnicutt's "Stuart" arrived, it was marked "US Naval War College Library". Very cool!
Maybe see if your library has that ability.
In the US, we have something called the "inter library loan" system whereby I can make a request at my local municipal library for practically any book published. They send the request into some sort of clearinghouse, and the book, if it is in any library in the US, will be shipped to my local library, available for me to check out for 3 or 6 weeks. Free, too.
I got several Hunnicutt books like that. Not as good as owning but you can see the actual thing.
When the copy of Hunnicutt's "Stuart" arrived, it was marked "US Naval War College Library". Very cool!
Maybe see if your library has that ability.
tankmodeler
#417
Joined: March 01, 2004
KitMaker: 3,123 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 05:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
you need to get 'British and American tanks of WW2' by Chamberlain and Ellis.
You have to watch that book closely as there are a number of errors in there that have crept into the general knowledge stream as "fact" when they are no such thing. The "never existing" Sherman II c Firefly is one such error.
Just a caveat.
Paul
Sherman_67
Joined: May 08, 2005
KitMaker: 265 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 02:26 PM UTC
I ment to say would a M4A3 sherman be with an M4A1
ericadeane
Joined: October 28, 2002
KitMaker: 4,021 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 - 06:54 PM UTC
Hi Matt:
Big difference there! The M4A1 (along with the M4) were the mainstay of US 75mm armed Mediums in Europe in the Battle of France (1944). Late that summer, the M4A3s began to be brought in theatre both as replacement vehicles and outfitting newly formed units.
Basically, whenever units had old veteran 76mm and 75mm M4A1s, their units would have been supplied w/M4A3s. In photos of early 1945, another batch of 76mm armed M4A1s appear in photos.
The answer is YES. See Zaloga's "US Tank Battles in Germany" or either of his "Sherman At War" parts 1 & 2. By Concord.
Big difference there! The M4A1 (along with the M4) were the mainstay of US 75mm armed Mediums in Europe in the Battle of France (1944). Late that summer, the M4A3s began to be brought in theatre both as replacement vehicles and outfitting newly formed units.
Basically, whenever units had old veteran 76mm and 75mm M4A1s, their units would have been supplied w/M4A3s. In photos of early 1945, another batch of 76mm armed M4A1s appear in photos.
The answer is YES. See Zaloga's "US Tank Battles in Germany" or either of his "Sherman At War" parts 1 & 2. By Concord.
HONEYCUT
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 4,002 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 07:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I ment to say would a M4A3 sherman be with an M4A1
You would find M4s and M4A1s together in the same units as they were mechanically similar. You'd find M4A3s generally all in the same unit...
Are you building the M4A3 early or late? What kit is it?
Brad
Drader
Joined: July 20, 2004
KitMaker: 3,791 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 01, 2005 - 10:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The "never existing" Sherman II c Firefly is one such error.
It's a very strange error too, the same page IIRC has a correctly captioned Sherman IC Hybrid (=composite) which isn't mentioned in the general text. Surprised they didn't make the leap to realising that a Firefly with a cast glacis might not be an M4A1.
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