Hi Gary!

I hope this is not a definitif Good bye! You have a right to express your opinion and I think you didn't offend anyone here!

I'm convinced about 1/48 scale Armor not because of accuracy, detail or originality of the kits... but simply because they exist! I'm more into 1/48 WW2 planes and would probably never have done a 1/35 kit or diorama. With the latest Tamiya kits, I can now have a nice collection of models at the same scale and put them together
I don't think the goal of Tamiya is to make the 1/35 crowd switch to 1/48... and I think that won't happen! If I would be a 1/35 builder, why switch to 1/48? There is less detail, less choice and the price is almost the same! The only good reason would be the possibility to make a dioramas that would embrace a bigger combat scene as someone already said. But there aren't enough models and figures yet (I only speak of injected ones).
There is a pool running here (see front page) that show 30% would give the new 1/48 scale Armor a try. I believe these are mainly the 30% of builders that already build in 1/48 or who are "multi-scalers"! I don't think we should start a war and compare 1/35 with 1/48 as they are destined to two different crowds with different needs. Maybe if there is as much choice in 1/48 and 1/35 one day, then it would be time to talk about that... but there is still a Looooonnnng way to go for 1/48!

Jean-Luc

Yes, that's the topic of the thread but the issue at hand was the statement that the kits are scaled down rehash. While I agree that they did not add the level of detail to the 1/48 scale armor as they do the 1/35 (molded on tools, cast metal hulls), I still do not think they are scaled down copies. Yes, the shortcuts used are reminiscent of 1970s era models and should have been done better.

As far as figures, I have not purchased any of their sets and have not inspected them further than glancing at the box art on the shelf (I'm just not a figure builder). I do know that the figures that come with the Kettenkraftrad and both Kubelwagens are really nicely done and do not appear as figures in the older 1/35 scale line.


I agree that they did not do the same level of detail that they do to their new 1/35 scale kits. Shame actually, but I was also really impressed with the German wheeled vehicles (Kubelwagen, Schwimmwagen) and hope to see some scaled down copies of their US wheeled vehicles (CCKW, Jeep M8/M20).


Link and length track is a "new" feature to them but has been used since the 1980s (Esci 1/35 and 1/72 scale kits jump to mind).


Fair enough, I do not think the level of detail Tamiya adds to the 1/48 scale armor even approaches the detail on many modern 1/72 scale kits.


Sorry to see you leave, don't worry about offending, someone will be back to attack 1/48 scale armor within the next month or two. When new kits or genres are introduced, most people just take it or leave it, but 1/48 scale armor seems to draw so much hostility from many 1/35 scale armor builders.

Rhinox:

Is that true? Wow. That is nuts. Then again it prolly takes alot of prodding to convict anyone over here. Justice system too wrapped up in stupid cases like "my coffee was too hot"

Jean Luc, couldn't agree more with your view. If it wasn't for the new 1/48th armor, I wouldn't be building any. Since 1/48 armor is smaller than 1/35, the lack of detail compared in comparision is assumed and expected. If I was building a 1/144 plane, I don't expect a full detailed cockipt with instructment markings either.

Well,
I just had to come back and see the replies.

And Boy, it's still amazing how many things can be read into a seven word sentence. Now I'm being accused of belittling the Panther. I didn't even know they made one.

This is why I said good bye, apart from a few people who correctly addressed my comments, everyone else here has made accusations at me with no grounds.

When I said I just bought the Tiger, Sherman and Stug, it was literally 3 or 4 hrs before I answered the thread.
I never mentioned the Hetzer, Panther, Citron staff car, or any other 1:48 scale kit in my initial thread.

I will explian it again for the slow people out their.

I live in Cairns, Queensland, Australia. ( remember we are a bit behind the times here!) I ordered three 1:48 scale kits because every website I read highly recommended the Tamiya 1:48 scale kits. I ordered them, paid my $110.00 aud for them and waited. In the same order I wanted the DML Tiger 1 initial 3 in 1.
The day they arrived, so did the christmas shipment of Dragon kits to the Toyshop ( not hobbyshop) I buy from locally. I was able to look inside most of the DML kits as they ordered me the late tiger instead of the initial so I got to see inside the Tiger, Pzkpfw IV, 251d 3 in 1, and Hummel.
My 1:48 stuff was wrapped in paper.
I got it home opened the packaging and then the boxes and was disappionted by what I saw..... then made the mistake of sharing my opinion with the world..... Cos look what happened.
You may not have been offended by what I said, but I don't find some of the responces I got to my seven word sentence pleasent or correct.

I ADMIT I WAS WRONG!!!!

But after getting the DML Tiger 1 Late on the same day. The 4 or 5 sprue I got in the Tamiya kits didn't compare to what I got in the DML box. ( I know it's not the same, but I'm talking value for money!)

Today, I read the thread by Jim Rae about the 1:72 scale DML kits, these all come with photo etch parts and beautiful detail, how about we compare some of these to the 1:48 Tamiya products and then tell me that some of my comments are unjust.
One person said I should have assumed that because of the scale difference that I should have known the detail level would be less than expected..... well I build 1:35 and 1:72 as I like to wargame as well.
And only a week before built the DML King Tiger Porsche turret, I believe that for 1:72 they are better.

Now some folk probably believe I dislike Tamiya that is far from the truth, You cannot build for as long as we have and not have a fondness for Tamiya. The Dragon Wagon, Famo, Pershing, Marder 3, and many of the kits made in the last 10 years have been exceptional.

But "I'm still not convinced about (Tamiya's) 1:48"

To directly answer Jean-Luc, I agree with you. My thinking is that I have 15 dioramas 1:35 gracing my selves most are about 300mm X 400mm, I have 10 finished AFV's on the window sil, and about 40 in boxes in the cupboard, I need a bigger house to put them in or I need to change to 1:48. As I also war game I dreamt " how good would wargaming be in 1:48?" Every few years I sell off or give away my older kits to make room. But a photo doesn't do it for me.... I want my work with me!

Enough of my ranting, But does anyone understand my thinking and therefore my emotional comments?
I could have gotten 2 of the DML kits that day.... as it was someone bought the Mark IV the next day.

Gaz

I have been building Tamiya kits since the seventies up to the present, and of course there is a great difference in quality; but no one criticized Tamiya in the seventies, as then it was state-of-the-art modelling. The same could be true of their 1/48 kits - at present some omitted detail, moulded on tools, and short cuts such as solid, raised hatch handles, which have to be cut off and replaced with wire. (Skybow's Tiger has much finer detail in this area and has separate handles). I'm also very much not in favor of the die-cast lower hulls. We can only hope Tamiya learns from their errors, listens to modellers wants, and improve on their products as they did 30 years ago. If their short-cuts are due to a cynical approach to marketing, as there is an absense of serious competition, then only the presence of a serious competitor will force Tamiya to improve. I agree that Tamiya is a respected leader in the field of plastic modelling, but they are not above critisism when critisism is due. And if 1/35'ers fear the rivalry of another scale, then just blame it on the evolution of modelling.
BTW someone earlier mentioned the fact that there was a lack of accessories and building supplies in 1/48. Try branching out into model RR. Grandt line has excellent injection-moulded doors, windows, store fronts, and various accessories in 'O' scale (1/4", or 1/48). Other brands have white metal and resin castings of furniture, tools, fittings, junk piles, etc.

Hi , i don't come on this forum as i want , toooo buzy time to sculpting for you...
But just a word to say that the M113 exist form Propaganda Kompany at this scale( 1/48) with all interior. 140 parts...
For the Bradley , you will wait, but you still have LVTP7A1 with interior if you want.

these models aren't in plastic but in resin cast.

since 1990 i'm addict to 1/48scale... that's the reason i'd sculpted more than 150 1/48 figures , weapons and gears...

Respectfully

Marc Le Bayon
P.K.

Bonjour Marc!

On fait un p'tit tour sur Armorama!

Here's a hot link to M. Le Bayon's site:
Propaganda Kompany
Make a visit if you are searching for "exotic" 1/48 resin kits...

Jean-Luc

IMO, some of the hostility towards 1:48 scale is centered around a fear that it may replace 1:35. If nothing else, it will reduce the numbers of new kits released in the traditional scale.

I am a BIG 1:35 Modern Armor builder, and with every new 1:48 kit coming out, its one less chance for a new US Armor kit to be released, as we now have the chance to release, ad nauseum, the entire order of battle for the German army in WW2. With Taymia putting its effort into this new scale, and only a finite of effort available to new kits, it reduces the chance of them putting out another great kit, such as the M1A2 they released last year. As it stands right now, there is only one decent manufacture of modern 1:35 kits, that being DML. There are others, but they seldom stand up to the standards set by DML. DML has, as Tamiya, only a finite supply of time and effort, they can only release so many new kits per year.

If 1:48 works, great, but I only hope it doesn't become an industry wide standard and draw resources away from the production of new 1:35 kits. I have heard nothing of the sort or any inclination that it will be so, but you never know.

bonjour Jean Luc
oui , la preuve , meme a 1H40 du matin...
je prepare les nouveautes de 2006.
Hi Jean Luc
Yes , sill here at 1H40 AM...
I'm preparing the 2006 News.
huge lot of 1/48 figures....

@+
Marc Le Bayon

Hi Larry,

Two things,

1: I didn't understand your "craftmanship issue with DML untill this week when I built the old Shanghi Dragon Nashorn..... What a dog of a Kit!

2: What Tamiya Tiger kit comes with zimmerite?

Thanks though it's been fun.

Gaz

Why, none do. I never said they did, though. They are just as bad as Dragon kits in that regard.

Exactly. They are afraid quarter scale will do in their GI Joes! :-)

Just added two new Tamiya M4A1s to my growing 1/48 collection. Beautiful kit!

I have just taken the plunge with Tamiya T-34. It is a wonderful litlle kit. I think the scale is great as now I can do dios with aircraft and have already got a few ideas of what i want to do. Tamiya have got the perfect oppurtunity to create a nich in the market seeing as they are slowly being pushed out of the 1/35th market.

May they continue to release inthis scale.

Ross

Quite honestly what German or American piece of kit has left to be issued in 1/35th? Yes there are a number of "one-off's"; and Dragon ventured down this road with that German self propelled gun that there were two of in Stalingrad?! (der longen bangen shuten ting). I'm sitting on the fence to see which scale will release the early Churchill series first. As it is, all of my 72/76 scale stuff will be hitting the sale table at the next show. I've been rather disappointed with 35th in the fact that there is a host of British/Commonwealth vehicles that have been overlooked. Who knows, maybe the 35th stuff will hit the tablese too!

Fuzzy was here...

Considering the size of your collection,..... maybe you should start up your own store!

Frank

I just saw that Tamiya is issuing their 1/48 StuG III B in 1/35 now!

Grrr love to see lots of 'funnies' instead of being AM options... What limitless opportunities in dios for displaying their capabilities.
Cheers
Brad

The Panther G is a superb rendition I am patiently waiting for the Jagdpanther which must be due any time now. You guessed it I am 'convinced' about 1/48 and look forward to a greater variety of offerings.

John

The truth is... MANY . Softskins, Artillery, and various AFVs have either still to be done or desperately need re-kitting in plastic. There are certainly certain vehicles which have been 'done to death' but for an Allied or Axis 1/35th builder, the gaps in the market are truly enormous...

Saying that, doesn't mean that I would advocate 'exclusivity' 1/35th, far from it, I am sitting here twitching at the thought of the entry of Trumpeter into this scale...Jim

Regarding the German armour proliferation, I have to agree with Steve,.... but like you state, Jim, there are plenty of omissions in the 35th scale line of American soft skinned vehicles, not to mention the lack of 'correct' tank destroyers. The discrepancy between what is available in 35th scale for the British and German aficionado is as wide as it is nauseating!

British tanks that have been ignored (and anyone daring to state that the (platic) manufacturers do not build them because there is no market for them,.. is unfortunately part of the problem!)

Vickers Light tank MkII, MkIII, MkIV, MkV, MkVI
Vickers Tetrarch I, Tetrarch CS
Vickers Cruiser MkI, MkI CS (A9)
Vickers Cruiser MkII, MkIIA, MkIIA CS (A10)
Vickers MkIII, MkIV, MkIVA(A13)
Vickers MkV Covenanter I, II, III, IV, CS,
Challenger
Comet (yeah, yeah,... I'll believe it, when I see it!)
Matilda I
Churchill I, II, III, IV, AVRE

This is not to mention the old or crude renditions of the Matilda II and the line of Valetines, Archer, and Bishop which are currently available.

Frank

Not wanting to encourage any repetition of the Allied vs. Axis debate, but there are some observations which apply equally to 1/48th as 1/35th

1) The market (up until now) has been 'Industry-led' - they produce the kits, we buy them, no consultation, little Market Research

2) The Pacific Rim: Many companies have been concentrating the majority of their production on the 'HOME' market. Export has been nice and sexy but ) it was never as much important as nowadays...

3) The 'Net: We've taken over from the (print) magazines. Completely. Want a review or news? Go on-line. Want to see it in a magazine? Wait 2-3 months. A manufacturer who can't use the 'net is dead in the water. Many are (even now) pretty reluctant to put a foot in the water.

4) Allied Releases: Will it happen? Yes. Will we see a vast amount of kits covering obscure subjects? No. These will remain the 'domain' of companies like Accurate Armour as many of these subjects are still in the 'rarefied' category in many modellers minds - not in the minds of the companies. A Tiger is still going to sell more units than a Cromwell or a Matilda. Sad but true...

...Jim