Hello:

I am seeking some answers and advice from all of the experts out here. Let me explain my situation and problem.

I completed the painting on DML's Panther D, for the first time I used Future for a gloss coat to lay down my oil wash and decals. As I know want to move onto different stages of weathering, I sprayed the model with Tamiya Clear Flat, thinned about 50/50.

I checked on the model about 1/2 hour ago (around 1/2 hour after I sprayed it) and it has a white film all over it....it looks as if I misted the model with a thinned down white....what happened?? If the model is salvageable, how do I remove the flat, with Windex??

I tried a number of new techiniques, since I am a beginner and wanting to learn them all, however this not at all what I expected. I did notice that the Clear Flat had a sort of milky appearance and after oodles of stirring, it was still thick, wasn't like normal paint. It was a brand new bottle that I had purchased around 6-9 months ago.

Any advice anyone can provide would be greatly appreciated....thanks!

Randy

Hi Randy,

Interesting,... I've a friend that just had the same thing occur to his 48th Ligthning, Tamiya flat over Future, his model was covered in a blotchy filmy white coating. At the time, I thought that possibly, he had not thinned out the flat coat enough, but if this is occuring with other folks, it could be just a bad reaction of these two chemicals together.

My advice to him, was to stop using Future for a gloss coat and to give Polly Scale gloss and flat coats (acrylic) a try, thins out nicely with Tamiya thinner and can be oversprayed in minutes with other paints, or washes. (It's all I ever use!)

Frank

EDIT.... he still has not been able to remove the offending blotchy white film from his model, I'll keep you informed on his trial and errors.....

Tamyia's Flat is a base to add to a gloss to make it flat
it is not a flat coat---but an additive!!!!

Dave,

Thanks for the clarification, I'll pass it along to my friend.

Frank

You mix X-22 (clear gloss) + X-21(flat base) to geat a clear flat mix. Be careful because too many x-21 will result to a winter wash look -- in short white. I'm not sure you could still remove the flat...I think you need to repaint the kit.

BTW, test your mixture first before using on your kit. Start with a very small amount of x-21...just use what would fit on a toothpick tip. Just add a few more to your mixture if you still find the coat still glossy.

Cheers

This garbage should be taken off the market. If Tamiya insists on keeping it in its inventory, there should be an advisory on the product and the rack on how to use it.

My 2 pennies would remove it completely from the rack.

The absolute worst product in this hobby.

I can concur with Dave on this one. Tamiya does not have a Flat Clear paint. They have an X-21 Flat Base which is primarily used for establishing a base coat and has the characteristics you mentioned when applied onto a model.

I'm with you on that! I think every modeler, at a time or another, ruined one model whit this Flat Base thing... at least Tamiya could have designed a sticker for the bottle, so that everybody is aware this should not be used like their common acrylic paint. I suggest a BIG RED WARNING sticker!

Jean-Luc

The Tamiya flat base is not just an additive for their clear coat. It can be added to all their range of Acrylic paints and makes them flatter. If you do use too much of it it does turn the finish white.

Only way to fix it is to strip the model and paint again. Been there done that LOL

cheers
Cliff

This comes up at least once a month on one forum or another...

I'm sure their catalogue has the information about how to use it, at least it used to (where I read about it). Not much help if the instructions on the bottle themselves are in Japanese.

You may try to remove the paint with Tamiya acrylic thinner. I personally didn't try removing flat base, but has succeded to brush off flat paint and clear coat weeks after application. I used a Q-tip dipped into thinner.

Another thing that may work is appliing a coat of future or Tamiya Clear on the surface.

i had the same problem using MM waterbased flat clearcoat. it did the same white spoty finish. after that dried i airbrushed the model with MM dulcoat and it looked just fine. color came back to its original shade.

Your future as not dry enough when you sprayed the flat. I always wait 3 days for future to dry completly

Why does this need to be taken off the market? Or have the bottle surrounded by bright red tape???

On the bottle, it is very clearly labeled FLAT BASE, it doesn't say Flat coat, Matt coat, or the like, it says FLAT BASE....key word being BASE.

How would you every get this stuff to spray in an airbrush to start with??? The Flat base that I have is about the consistancy of suntan lotion, and is colored white in the bottle. Those 2 features alone would allude you to deduce that it would have to be mixed with something else to be used.

The reason they Tamiya doesn't have Flat coat on the market, is they can market the FLAT BASE, which can not only be used with their Clear Coat, to make it a Flat Coat, but it can also be mixed with any of their gloss colors to make them into a flat color.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Something that hasn't happened to me yet! Oh Boy! I'm sure it will though, my memory is pretty bad.

When I first used the Tamyia flat I made the same mistake ( end ended up with a whitish model).

I do find it very good for mixing into a 'dust' coat as it produces a very matt paint which is ideal for dried mud etc.

You mentioned that your model was painted with gloss varnish prior to the 'error', Would you be able to use a paint stripper to remove the acrylic layer.

:-[ ] There is an article on the forumn (about a paint job theat went wrong on a aircraft), there was a product mentioned on there which would remove the acrylic paint - sorry dont remember what it was.

I love the Flat Base. Never had a problem with it myself.
The best thing about it is that you can use it with any Tamiya gloss colour to make a flat version of it. If you vary the mix (within limits) you can vary the degree of gloss (always test the mix first).

Hi all, first post here. I can say from experience that a model "ruined " with Flat Base can be salvaged by a layer of gloss coat. It'll kill the white coating. Of course after that you'll have a glossy finish that you'll probably want to flatten out again. I ended up using Dull Cote in the spray can to flatten it, which is what I'm used to.

I'm primarily a miniatures painter and discovered all this during experimenting with different sealers through my airbrush. I think I had a ratio of 1 to 3 Flat Base to Future which is too much Flat Base. At least 4 parts future is needed.

Oh yeah, and I used Testor's Gloss Cote in the spray can by the way.

The flat additive medium is a very versitile product and I use it with Tamiya, Vallejo and other similar paints to achieve different paint finishes. There have been many articles in magazines, where its use is described. It does not say anything about it being varnish on the bottle.

John

"Seems pretty straight forward to me."

Well, from looking at the rest of the thread, seems like lots of people get it mixed up. The best test of a set of instructions is how people actually use the product - if there are lots of people making mistakes, then the instructions need to be reworked. Period.

Incidentally, this has never happened to me - but I've never used the product at all. It sounds like a useful product, but they probably should rename it (Flat Additive or the like) or go with a conspicuous warning/instruction.

I like the stuff. When mixed with future it makes a nice matt or satin coat. The mixture is thinner than normal varnishes and is much easier to brush on. Now armed with an airbrush, I can try a dead flat coat (1 part flat base 3 parts future) which leaves white marks when brushed on.

I agree about the instructions. The bottle has only Japanese text and a finnnish instructions sticker...which is the same for all tamiya paints.
Doesn't matter much anyway. Thanks to EU, modeling paints go to the category "toys" when imported and being harmfull to health, require extra tolls. As a result, tamiya acrylics are no longer imported.
I should go and buy a few bottles of flat base before the stocks in my LHS run out...

I wouldn't recommend the 3 to 1 mix. That's how I learned about how to "repair" a paint job affected by it. It made everything look ...frosty...for lack of a better word. Especially the really dark colors- one of mine was Vallejo Black Brown. But I'm also relatively new to to anything other than Vallejo/Reaper style paints. so, YMMV

Sounds to me as if they simply need to rename the product Flat Additive.

Did you apply that 1:3 mix with an AB or a brush, tabascojunki? I remember trying it with paintbrush and it left white marks in recesses and other spots where the coat was heavier.