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Armor/AFV: Allied - WWII
Armor and ground forces of the Allied forces during World War II.
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US M-10 Tan Destroyer Done
Neill
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 12:45 PM UTC
Finishedthe M-10 I ahve been workign on.. you can seeteh step by step at Willkommen:





Neill
slynch1701
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 03:20 PM UTC
looks good. do you have any pics closer up?


Sean
crockett
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Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 - 08:07 PM UTC
Don't take this the wrong way, but, is there a model in there somewhere? I'm all for realism, but there is so much stuff piled on this TD that one can't really see the model.

To each his own and all that, but a little less "gingerbread" IMHO would let the modeling and weathering skills be appreciated, if they even exist?

Steve
ericadeane
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 10:56 AM UTC
Thanks for posting pics of your M10, Neill. Great to see your model. May I make a suggestion? Unless that is a knocked out tank, no crew would ever put a netting over the front of its mantlet like that -- you'd obscure the optics. Can't see, can't shoot, can die.

Draping it over the front of a tank doesn't make sense either. Netting was used to obscure observation by hiding the shape of a tank -- usually with the assistance of support poles -- making it look like fauna. I don't see tankers using it in an urban setting.

"Hey Hans: why is there a bush over there in the middle of the rubble? It must be a camo net. Let's have a few rounds of 12.8cm mortar onto it..."

Hope this help.
Neill
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 02:56 PM UTC

Quoted Text

looks good. do you have any pics closer up?
Sean


Thank Sean, should have some closes up this week.

John
Neill
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 03:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Don't take this the wrong way, but, is there a model in there somewhere? I'm all for realism, but there is so much stuff piled on this TD that one can't really see the model.

To each his own and all that, but a little less "gingerbread" IMHO would let the modeling and weathering skills be appreciated, if they even exist?

Steve


Thanks Steve for taking the time to look and commnet. My intend was to make a veteran Tank Destroyer after months/years of campainging, not a factory fresh or recent in-service unit.. You would be amazed what I have seen attached to M60s & even M1s in todays combat world. The particlar vechile was based on a series of photographs of actual M10 in combat.

And yes this is a little modleing, painting and weathering involved. But as you said to each his own..

Neill
Neill
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Posted: Wednesday, December 28, 2005 - 03:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thanks for posting pics of your M10, Neill. Great to see your model. May I make a suggestion? Unless that is a knocked out tank, no crew would ever put a netting over the front of its mantlet like that -- you'd obscure the optics. Can't see, can't shoot, can die.

Draping it over the front of a tank doesn't make sense either. Netting was used to obscure observation by hiding the shape of a tank -- usually with the assistance of support poles -- making it look like fauna. I don't see tankers using it in an urban setting.

"Hey Hans: why is there a bush over there in the middle of the rubble? It must be a camo net. Let's have a few rounds of 12.8cm mortar onto it..."

Hope this help.


Thanks Roy for your comments. appreciate your ideas.

One use of Camo nets is to obsurce the shape of the vehicle for the inital second - kill time. Often you will see phots of TD and other vechicles with camo nets tossed over them. Sometimes with branches and other fauna sometimes alone, sometines with other debris (like a ghillie suit for a sniper).

I am going to take a look and revamp a little as needed.

Again thanks for your input,

Neill
hellbent11
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Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2005 - 11:51 AM UTC
I'm with Neill on this stuff. I have seen in many refs pics of camo nets draped over mantlets. This makes sense because most of the time a tank is facing forwards toward the opponent for mobility/survivability reasons. A smart crew would take precautions to keep netting from getting in the way of optics/moving parts. The vehicle could be just exiting a forest into a village and under fire the crew can't jump out and roll up camo. It really boils down to a personal opinion call. As far as too much "stuff" to hide a lack of "skills" that's stupid! Would you say that a vehicle operating in Stalingrad had too much stuff around it? Yeah it would because it was rolling through what used to be a CITY. So do you lack "skills" because you depict that rubble etc? NO! As far as modelling something it depends on realism and what could really happen. I think Neill did a great job of showing that in his dio!
Neill
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Posted: Friday, December 30, 2005 - 02:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm with Neill on this stuff.


Thanks apreciate the comments... Heck I even appreciate the criticism, keeps me thinking and from getting too lazy in my hobby.

Neill
MikeMummey
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Posted: Friday, December 30, 2005 - 08:14 AM UTC
Howdy everyone. Before we get too far "Fauna" is a collective term for animal life. Flora = plants. The main gun optics on this halted M-10 would not be obscured as Neil has modeled it. The gunners telescope is on the left side of the mantlet which is not covered by the netting. However, the metal protective cover for the telescope is molded/modeled in the closed position. Draping the net over the tank, regardless of its color and where you are halted makes perfect sense if you are trying to break up the shape, size, type or texture of your vehicle. Especially if your unit SOP dictates that you do so. You get one net when you cross the LD(Line of Departure). It will have to work wherever you end up. Its not unusual for tank/armored vehicle crews to operate with netting draped on the turret. Especially during stop and go operations. At an extended halt you roll it down. Prior to moving out you roll it back up and secure it. Simple stuff. If the camoflauge netting interferes with optics or vision then you just cut away or adjust the offending material. Can see, can shoot, steel on target. What matters is that the camo material/netting does not interfere with the operation of the turret or gun. Looking at pictures of Allied armored vehicles in Italy post January 44' and Northern Europe post October 44' they appear to have all manner of stuff strapped to their "Hogs" for protection or to break up the outline of the vehicle from observation or fires. Neil, I like the look of your M-10 model in your gallery. Out here.
Neill
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Posted: Friday, December 30, 2005 - 02:13 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Howdy everyone. Before we get too far "Fauna" is a collective term for animal life. Flora = plants.


DUH... stupid of me... but then again I is a college grad-u-ate and I teach History, not biology or science. And my Latin (and Greek) are very rusty.


Quoted Text

The main gun optics on this halted M-10 would not be obscured as Neil has modeled it. The gunners telescope is on the left side of the mantlet which is not covered by the netting. However, the metal protective cover for the telescope is molded/modeled in the closed position.


Good point. When i reworked the acadamy model I noted this and removed the molded on cover, drilled out and set up an optic scope and repalce the cover as noted on some reference pixs.





Quoted Text

LD(Line of Departure).


And with this thin skin puppy you can bet "Shoot & Scoot" was the order of the day.


Quoted Text

Neil, I like the look of your M-10 model in your gallery. Out here.


Thanks! Frankly my challenge in this one was to take a very old, plain jane Academy model and see what I could make of it. All detailing is all my own scratch built stuff, except for the Verlinden .30 cal and Ammo cans.

and Thanks for your comments and observations.

Neill
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