Hi all

Here are some pics of my latest effort. I called it The Clearing. Sticking to a simple idea, a German tank crew find a nice spot to take a break.
Hope you like...Glen

This dio looks really fun! Great job!

The feeling of finishing a dio must be great! I bet you can't wait to start the next one... I'm sure you already plan it in your head!

The tow cable and bent fenders look great! I also like the hanging of the ear phone on the open starage bin.

If I can share my opinion with you (oops I just did haha) The fire extinguisher should be the color of the tank instead of red. and if the fire extinguisher was mounted after camo the tank, then it should be green.

Make sure you trim all the seamline off the figures... the time you spend extra care on the figgies will make a big difference in quality of your presentation.

The fir tree should be in a cone shape rather than the same width all the way down. A simple solution is to trim the tree with scissors on top and make it the base wider.

Anyway, that's just me rambling... I think you put great effort into it and really is awesome!

WC

Your diorama looks great. The base and the name plate are just a part of it but they prove your efort here..

I agree with Benjamin about the fire extinguisher and the trees and I add another opinion that it would be nice to chip the paint where the zimmerit was deteriorated, maybe some metalic color drybrushing...
The edges of the shoulder straps and the collar of the black jackets could be painted (pink for the panzer crews for example)..

Anyway, this is a nice diorama at all, congrats for finishing it and thanks for sharing

Thanks for the feedback guys although it leaves me a bit confused.
I used the Osprey Tiger book as a guide with a lot of this tank and they used a red fire extinguisher on the models. Is this wrong? I would say that there is no definite right or wrong with this item.
They also used a grey colour under the chipped zim which I have also done.

Thanks again.

Hi Glen,
The fire extinguisher is painted mostly when the crew painted the tank on the field.. So if you paint this stuff with the color of the tank no one can comment, but when it is red it will be always commented

About the chipped zimmerit; I didn't comment the grey color under it. But if the zimmerit is deteriorated and falled down maybe the paint under it would be deteriorated.. My thought..
Anyway the zimmerit looks very nice and I know it is hard to give the destroyed effect on it which you have realized very realistic..

Wampum

I take your point on the chipped paint under the zim. A few chips would have been good. That's a point learned.

As for this extinguisher, what if it is a replacement?
If I was a crewman..yes..I would probably tone down that red, but I don't think we can say that all German tank fire extinguishers were painted the colour of the tank by the crew in the field. We just couldn't be that definite.

Anyway, I think next time I will paint it the colour of the tank!!

Thanks
Glen

You are absolutely right Glen..



And you'll see that it will be not commented

Cheers
Alguhan

Here's a picture I found on the FeuerLöscher (fire extingiusher). Not sure how accurate it is but I hope it helps for future reference.





WC

Gidday Glennie,

Mate..........'em, I'd go with the idea, if you've seen some references (not other models) that have red fire extingishers, ie. Thomas Doyle's "Tiger 1" Centre page cutaway . Then go for it. As to the photo of the green fire extingisher.... the German side of the photo is in sepia, so who can tell what colour it is.

As to the grey, Was the other tiger... (in the osprey book) the same ausf? what am I saying! !!!!!!Zimmerite was applied in the factory over the red primer. So even if the other tiger was an early model it would not have had a grey undercoat.........

Now me personally, I think it's a great job... Good work.
We are Australian's .....what's a FIR TREE! Does it look like a gum or a wattle.....how about a banksia?

Don't let them get on ya case, they seem to do that alot here..... Try having an opinion.....and see how fast they jump.......

What scale is it?

Good Job Mate.

Gaz ( Cairns)

Hi Glen,
Tiger,figures and groundwork look very good. I liked the painting of the tank so much.I am not an expert on armor but in the ww2 and model photos i see before tank fire extinguishers mounted on the tanks hull are painted in the same color as the tank but i believe no problem for a red one... maybe one of the crew felt to paint it red to make easier to see in my opinion this detail also looks good in your dio...
congrats

I was hard to understand what that means;


bestest regards

Thanks Gaz.

The grey under the zim is off a Late Ausf E, same as mine. Incidentally the red extinguisher is too...lol.
I tried to find out if it was only red used under zim but no-one could really say for sure. In the end, if it's good enough for Osprey...
The trees...well these are my first attempt at making them from scratch and are more of a generic tree than fir or pine. Maybe they are a hybrid..

Cheers.

Glen -

First off, a beautifully done and detailed Tiger I. I especially like the zimmerit treatment, very effective and shows the "damage" extremely well. Also it is the little details you've added that help bring out the story. The added headphones, binoculars, bucket, open bins all add to that feeling of a relaxing crew. Remember that the build is yours and if you're happy with it and enjoyed it, that is what is most important. If you're wanting "inputs" to improve on the obvious talent you've shown then please accept the comments and suggestions for improvements at face value. Most all of us are here to share, learn, and improve. You've displayed talent that many of us are struggling to achieve. To help with the diorama story, some other minor details would add even more to this excellent work. A Tiger I (Late) like this means that your in 1944 so Allied air superiority would have had the crew (most likely) aware of this and foliage would be added especially if they were in a "Clearing". And if far enough in the rear, then the muzzle brake would probably be covered unless they were in process of cleaning it. These are 1 SS troops and would be most inclined to follow procedure. Now with that said, take my, "Wildcard's" and "Wampum's" comments for what they are meant to be, just little suggestions to help make this outstanding work even better.

Blade48mrd

Glen, Nice work so far, As for critiques I have none ot offer that havent already been covered. Great job!! Cheers Kevin

Thanks for your comments Blade, I appreciate your input...I'm especially happy that I seem to have built my first Tiger OK. The zimmerit was a killer but I'm also glad I have it under my belt. I thought it was a bit thick in parts but overall OK.
Good points about the muzzle brake and foliage and as you say, they are wildcards, makes sense but not necessary however I am now aware of these factors.

You obviously picked up on my defensive stance re the fire extinguisher!!! Let me try and explain myself.

I love the input and suggestions I get from posting. I am fairly new to modelling and am sucking up knowledge where I can and every post teaches me more.

Having said that, there is a definite grey area with some advice offered by other forum members..I have noticed this from reading many posts not only on this forum either.

If someone tells me that I used the wrong roadwheels, or hatch lids for this model tank etc, then I would fix them and would be grateful to have learned something. These things were a certain way, no doubt, but to say that the extinguisher should be the colour of the tank...

If you can tell me 100% that it was not red then I will stand corrected and I will re-paint it.
I referenced this directly from an Osprey modelling manual. And isn't it conceivable that it could be red anyway?

Some forum users tend to be so rigid in their views on things like vehicle colours, equipment etc that they cannot see the possibility of another situation being acceptable.
This is a general trend on these forums and I do not expect to change it.

When we make a dio we are basically creating a small art work. The core subject (in most cases the tank, plane or figures) should be historically accurate but some areas are open to creative licence,.a bit of lateral thinking on the part of the maker. Some from the viewer would also be good.

Thanks
Glen

Glen,
Great job on the dio. Well balanced and situated on the base, and I particularly like the groundcover.
Now, regarding suggestions from others, my advice is don't sweat the small stuff. You are absolutely right that there was a lot of variance in German kit (allied too, for that matter) so a good rule is "never say never." Besides, unless you are competing, the most important thing is that the piece pleases you. That said, German fire extinguishers weren't red. At least that is what I have read and seen countless times all over the internet. I've also seen an original example in one of the workshops of the Patton Museum. They were a semi-gloss grayish-green color, sort of like what fieldgray might look like in semi-gloss. Now, perhaps there was some variance but that is somewhat doubtful because the Germans were very meticulous and in many things they had long histories of certain colors for specific industrial uses (for example, the ubiquitous red oxide primer, and I believe that a yellow shade close to dunkelgelb had a long history in farm and/or construction). I've seen it said that just like American fire extinguishers have always been red, at least up until then, German ones were uniformly this gray/green color. I am sorry that I cannot supply you with a link, and of course someone may be able to come along and with proper documentation shred everything I've just said. That's why I said "never say never" (or always) when speaking of anything to do with German armor.
At the very least, if you want to shoot for the greatest chance of being accurate, paint it to match the exterior. Nobody can quibble with that. Then again, it's your dio, do whatever you like and there is certainly something to be said about the bit of color that little red fire extinquisher lends. So, feel free to ignore us all!
BTW, I wouldn't get too hung up on what Osprey says (or any other publications dating back more than 15-20 years or so). Truth is, many mistakes have been corrected only fairly recently through extensive direct research by the likes of Thomas Jentz and a few others. When those Osprey books were printed what they presented may well have been considered accurate, or at least the corrected information had yet to be widely accepted.

Glen,

Sorry mate if this cause any grief to ya! Just wanted to help and share my opinion.

To the contrary, I'm more felxible than a 13-year old gymnast on a triple beam balace. For the past year since I joined the forum I realized I made many mistakes in building my models (black muzzle being one of them). Thanks to the good people here let me know my mistake without sugarcoating it, I was able to improve and learn more about this wonderful hobby.

Like Steve said, never say never is always a good policy. And yes the pre-war fire extinguisher was indeed in red. However, this quickly changed as war progress along. This diorama you are building is in a rather late stage of the war, so under rational thinking I suggest it would be more likely in graygreen.

However, this does not mean you should do what I or any other members on this forum said. After all, this is a very subjective and personal hobby. So just enjoy what you are buliding and share it with us.



WC

See, didn't take long for me to be corrected.
We live and learn, grasshopper...

Thanks guys. You present some pretty convincing facts about the extinguisher and thanks for the info. Pity this wasn't the initial comment!
Anyway I think I am likely to be wrong with the red so I''ll re-paint that little sucker!
By the way I hope I didn't offend anyone!

Glen

Mate, I can safely say none of us are offened I'm here to learn as well. A healthy discussion like this benefits everybody. Not learning anything is worst than not knowing. If people didnt tell me about the reality of blackened muzzle, I would still be building it the same way!

WC

Nothing makes more sense than a crew doing what it takes to survive. While the fire extinguisher may be issued as red, an experienced crew would paint it, mud it up or cover it right away as it stands out too much.

That being said, how about a quick wipe of mud or dirt on the extinguisher? I think serious rivet counting nit pickers would appreciate featuring the way the crew has paid attention to such detail to survive. That way you can still see keep it red and satisfy others that it's not bright red.

All look great brother nice work

Here we go I found this for you all ...as you can see it is as Steve said a grey green color and is direct from the factory because we can see the stencils have not been painted over and as you can tell it is not red ...the heart contrasts quite a bit don't you think...



hope this helps
Rick

Thanks for pointing it out. Yes Alan, that would be me! :-) :-) :-)

Bear you crack me up! I knew you can come up with something like this!

I have to say I learned alot from you! Keep me on my toes please!

WC

Well I'm glad we finally sorted that out. But it has opened a new topic of me.

I believe Mr Verlinden was a big fan of painting muzzle brakes black, and as we have all seen the modelling fraternity has followed everything he did for many years. Fortunately new blood has begun to flow. Gary Edmonson, Greg Chilar ect.....

My question therefore is: As Mr V was also big on painting black around exhausts ie. tigers....
Did the Gemans run their vehicles that rich?
It takes quite some time to get a buildup like that from the stacks on a prime mover and if the engine deck on a tiger is used for transport/supplies on occasion and would be walked on often by the crew, then that soot should be warn off ? Anyone?

P.S. Hey Aussie, is your tiger 1:35 or 1:48... the crew figures look like they might be the new 1:48 set....are they?

Gaz

Gary,

I have the same question. Perhpas you can start a new thread on this topic.

WC