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Ardennes Jadgpanther
RotorHead67
Virginia, United States
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 09:43 AM UTC
Does anyone know what Army group or German Regiment that the 654th AT Battalion was attached to during the Counteroffensive of the Ardennse battle. I think that it was 6th Army, but I do not have an "Order of Battle" to confirm this. My current books of referance I'm using do not specify who the 654th was with , just that they were present and played a key roll in the push to Bastogne. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
RoelGeutjens
Belgium
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 05:11 PM UTC
I don't think they would have been from Dietrich's 6th army. Because they did the fighting around Malmedy towards Stavelot and Staumont.
The 7th army from Brandeberger mainly secured the left flank. Von Manteuffel's 5th army raced to houffalize and Bastogne. So if those jagdpanther where present around Bastogne it would be in the 5th army. So I think you need to find the order of battle of the 5th army.
I try to find something in my books.
Greetings Roel
The 7th army from Brandeberger mainly secured the left flank. Von Manteuffel's 5th army raced to houffalize and Bastogne. So if those jagdpanther where present around Bastogne it would be in the 5th army. So I think you need to find the order of battle of the 5th army.
I try to find something in my books.
Greetings Roel
Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 06:42 PM UTC
I have only one reference on the Bulge, "battle of the Bulge" by Danny S Parker. It has a German order of battle, but it makes no mention of a 654 s Pzjgr bat. There are the 653 and 655 ( 6th Panzer Armee and 10th SS Pz Div respectively).
Cheers
Henk
Cheers
Henk
Blade48mrd
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 07:20 PM UTC
Todd -
From a couple of my references, if you're looking for JagdPanthers, they are references showing them assigned to sPzJaeg Abt 559 and sPzJaeg Abt 560. So Von Manteuffel's 5th Pz Army, 47th Pz Corp, and the Panzer Lehr Division had sPzJaeg Abt 559 assigned to it (not sure if it was more than 1 Ko) for around the Bastogne area. Supposedly there were some 51 JagdPanthers participating in "Bulge" (?) so I need to do more researching and/or defer to others for more details.
Blade48mrd
From a couple of my references, if you're looking for JagdPanthers, they are references showing them assigned to sPzJaeg Abt 559 and sPzJaeg Abt 560. So Von Manteuffel's 5th Pz Army, 47th Pz Corp, and the Panzer Lehr Division had sPzJaeg Abt 559 assigned to it (not sure if it was more than 1 Ko) for around the Bastogne area. Supposedly there were some 51 JagdPanthers participating in "Bulge" (?) so I need to do more researching and/or defer to others for more details.
Blade48mrd
Gastel
Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 07:39 PM UTC
Gday,
I don't profess to be an expert but looking through various references and on the net very very quickly you may want to check out XLVII Panzer Corp.
Abteilung 654 appears to have been attached to them in Normandy and as they were at Ardennes 654 may have still been with them.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Alex
I don't profess to be an expert but looking through various references and on the net very very quickly you may want to check out XLVII Panzer Corp.
Abteilung 654 appears to have been attached to them in Normandy and as they were at Ardennes 654 may have still been with them.
Hope this helps
Cheers
Alex
Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 08:06 PM UTC
Alex,
In my reference the XLVII Pzrkorps has 559 s. Pzjgr Bn assigned to it ( in the Panzer Lehr Div.), with 19 JgdPanthers and JgIV.
Cheers
Henk
In my reference the XLVII Pzrkorps has 559 s. Pzjgr Bn assigned to it ( in the Panzer Lehr Div.), with 19 JgdPanthers and JgIV.
Cheers
Henk
Gastel
Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, January 05, 2006 - 09:15 PM UTC
Henk,
Like I said I am no expert but found this ref to 654
http://stonebooks.com/archives/001126.shtml
Cheers
Alex
Like I said I am no expert but found this ref to 654
http://stonebooks.com/archives/001126.shtml
Cheers
Alex
RotorHead67
Virginia, United States
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Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 - 08:58 AM UTC
All who responded,
Thanks for a quick reponse. From what I have found, there were 2 units equiped with Jadgpanthers @ Normandy. The 559th only had 1 company. The 654th had a full BN of 3 Co's by August 44' and most of the photos in books of knocked out Jadgpanthers are from this unit. Maybe I should have been less specific and not said Ardennes but Normandy in general.
Alex thanks for the book referance. That info is also what I have been able to determine. So if that is our info base.... Who was the Panzer group west CO, and if the 654 was with the 47th panzer corp, who had the 47th under his command. The 654 (3 Jadgpanthers) is well known to have been the unit that was involved with the destruction of the British 6th Guards Churchhill Mk IV's @ Les Loges. Subsequently the Jadgpanthers were knocked out and one was recovered and is now on display @ Camp Bovington
Thanks for a quick reponse. From what I have found, there were 2 units equiped with Jadgpanthers @ Normandy. The 559th only had 1 company. The 654th had a full BN of 3 Co's by August 44' and most of the photos in books of knocked out Jadgpanthers are from this unit. Maybe I should have been less specific and not said Ardennes but Normandy in general.
Quoted Text
XLVII Panzer Corp.
Abteilung 654 appears to have been attached to them in Normandy and as they were at Ardennes 654 may have still been with them.
Alex thanks for the book referance. That info is also what I have been able to determine. So if that is our info base.... Who was the Panzer group west CO, and if the 654 was with the 47th panzer corp, who had the 47th under his command. The 654 (3 Jadgpanthers) is well known to have been the unit that was involved with the destruction of the British 6th Guards Churchhill Mk IV's @ Les Loges. Subsequently the Jadgpanthers were knocked out and one was recovered and is now on display @ Camp Bovington
RotorHead67
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 07, 2003
KitMaker: 1,174 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 06, 2006 - 04:48 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I don't think they would have been from Dietrich's 6th army. Because they did the fighting around Malmedy towards Stavelot and Staumont.
The 7th army from Brandeberger mainly secured the left flank. Von Manteuffel's 5th army raced to houffalize and Bastogne. So if those jagdpanther where present around Bastogne it would be in the 5th army. So I think you need to find the order of battle of the 5th army.
I try to find something in my books.
Greetings Roel
Roel,
CHEERS for you are in order. . I guess I should have paid closer attention in high school when the math teacher was teeching ROMAN numerals, and not filed that block of instruction in the "Short term memory" group of cells. XLVII is 47....watson.. So
going back to my referances Jagdpanther #24 from AJ Press, Into the Reich by Zaloga and Panzers of Ardennes by Concord I found the following.
1. June 15th -8 jagdpanthers from 654th 2nd Co went to Panzer Lehr Division
2. July 17th- the rest of 2nd Co. and all of 3rd Co. 654th
went to the Normandy front. Attached to 47th Panzer Korps
3.According to the Order of Battle in "Into the Reich"
this is the chain. 654th was assigned to 47th pnzr Korp,which was assigned to Fifth Army under the command of Hasso von Manteuffel
Again I wish to extend a GREAT thanx to all who set me on course.