I turn to you, the all knowing, for your guidance and expertise..

What sort of damage would render a Sherman recoverable? If a (or some) suspension unit would be severely damaged, mine or HE shell, would that be a recovery to the rear, or would that be done 'in the field' ?
Engine failure, would an engine be changed in the field or again in the rear?
Were Shermans habitualy recovered, or were they left behind? Not after a brew up, but some fairly substantial external damage?

I know, very open ended questions, but I would like to create a feasible scenario, rather than a 'what if'..

Thanks for your help.

Cheers
Henk

Don't know if it'll help much but my grandfather served in europe during WWII and he told me Shermans were recovered frequently in the field and most major repair work was transported to a rear area. I would think anything would be conceivable for your dio.

I wish I could post the pics but they were lost.

Hi Henk

I recently watched a tv documentary called -
Modern Marvells - Tank Crew

In this program, which was mainly focused on the US 3rd Armoured Div from Normandy onwards they discussed the recovery of Shermans which was done by the divisions Ordnance and Mechanical units.

It showed these units repairing lightly damaged Shermans in the field (as long as the battlefield was secure) but also using Dragon Waggons to recover badly damaged and burnt out Shermans( in which sometimes there where the bodies of the crew still inside pretty gruesome stuff i know).
It made the point that as the units where advancing so rapidly and with stretched supply lines it was important to recover as many Shermans as possible to either repaired and put back into action or canabalised for spares.
These Shermans where taken to the vehicle collection point ( VCP) quite often the vcp was not far from the front line.

In the North Africa campaign which was basically a battle or attrition, recovery of tanks was important so control of the battlefield afterwards was vital , particularily on the German side who suffered from supply/replacement problems and often pressed captured armour into use.


Ian

Thanks guys, that's great.

Howdy Henk. There is a book called "Death Traps" by a guy named Belton Cooper published in the last couple of years. He was an Ordance Officer with the 3rd AD in Europe from July 44-May 45. He was very involved in tank recovery and maintenance. His book describes in great detail the types of scenarios you are looking to replicate in miniature. It is a quick read because you do not want to put it down and offers a perspective other than that of the guy at the sharp end. Out here.

Henk,

A lot depends on the damage done to the tank, in the book Death Traps the author explains alot of the reasons. When the Sherman burned the heat destroyed the temper or hardness of the metal and could not be repaired. Hit a mine , blow off some road wheels, take a 88 thru the hull and they would hose out the insides, repair the damage and repaint it and reassign it to fight again.

Engines, transmissions and guns that just wear out would be replaced in the field at a maintenance unit or the vehicles own unit would do some repairs.

I also recommend the book as good reference book, and he talks about the Super Pershing tank.

Mike, Jim,

Thanks, looks like a good book. I'll have a look for it. The library might even have it in inventory.

Cheers
Henk

Here are a few pics you might like. A Sherman being towed...



From this page...
http://users.skynet.be/jeeper/page94.html

And two showing an engine replacement....





Both are from here...
http://www.lonesentry.com/photosets/AE/

this particular tank had a bogey wheel shot off during the landings at Normandy (Utah beach, I think) Blink and you'll miss it, but you can see the chain restraining the arm on the rear bogey asembly left side...



Love this one! TIP: Don' t leave a star on the applique where the ammo is stored! :-)



I'm guessing this is for the Dragon Wagon?
cheers
Brad

Hi Henk, not sure if it is of much help to you, but if you can obtain the 'Tanks in Detail' book, SHERMAN & FIREFLY by Terry J Gander, there are pix on page 29 and 34/35 of REME fitters doing an engine change using heavy wrecker trucks.
Colin.

Thanks for the info guys, those are some good links.

Bradley, yes it's for the DW, and that pic is perfect. I know I'm stepping right into the minefield here, but that looks enough like a M4A2 to me to do the job . A hole in the side and a blown off road wheel it is..

Chers
Henk

In the first pic posted by colo artist and honeycut is the towing vehicle the one based on the M3 LEE? If so does anyone make a conversion for it based on the old Tamiya kit?

Thanks

Hi Jarrod,

Your right, that is the M31 TRV. Calibre 35 makes a conversion set for the Tamiya M3 Lee , although its an expensive kit, Ive heard nothing but good reviews about it.

Can't find a catalogue # right now, but just use M31 in the search terms and it should come up at any retailer.

Regards
Matt

Both Calibre35 and DES make conversion kits...but they're both resin, so it'll cost ya a pretty penny.

Here's the Calibre35...







The it's kit number 35008. Here's an in depth review...
http://www.argo.net.au/jbwhole/reviews/cal35/cal35008.htm

The best price I could find for it was $60 at Roll. They use frames on their site, so I can't give you a direct link, but just go to the main page and search on M31...
http://www.rollmodels.net

DES also makes one but I didn't find much about it other than Mission Models has it for $65...



http://www.missionmodels.com/pages/des.htm

Here's an enlargement of the Lee's pic if that helps anyone...



Take care.

I have both the Calibre35 and the DES M31 conversion kits and recommend the Calibre35, it simply is better.

Note that neither solve the incorrect turret shape on the Tamiya Lee.

John

Thanks for the information.

I also read the "DEATH TRAPS" book. The author describes instances where very high % (75 and up) of assulting shermans were knocked out, but almost all of them were recoverable and were put back into service in a relatively short period of time. Kind of makes you wonder about your modelling eh? I kind of always assumed Shermans didn't last long enough in combat to rust etc. But it seems like they were being pulled back to the VCP and being repaired, outfitted with new turrets etc and being recycled multiple times. That book goes into great length about what could be repaired and what couldn't, and what kind of a job it was to make the repairs. Its an excellent read. I think I will put a little more wear and tear and weathering on my next sherman after reading this book.

Hi, the Sherman is about done, the right rear bogie is fixed in that position because it's being towed up the loading ramps when it all comes together. The Shermie is painted with Vallejo, sealed with Klear, washed and decaled, and sealed with Humbroll Matt Coat. Tracks will get a final weathering with pastels when it all comes together on the base.




With thanks to Bradley (Honeycut) for the idea..

Cheers
Henk

Looking good Henk, I like the hit on the Star, looks very realistic.

Thanks Andy

She's looking good Henk!
Just deleted a post, banging on about how late M4A3s didn't have applique armour etc. then re read the thread a LITTLE BETTER!
Your M4A2 looks good mate Glad to be of help-
Cheers
Brad