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Dioramas: Aircraft
Aircraft dioramas and related subjects.
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Huey;/Vietnam diorama info
Holocaust59
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Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 09:44 AM UTC
Tried to find a post I was reading from someone planning a Huey diorama, couldn't find it so had to start a new post. Anyway here's some info that might be useful to whoever it was.
I read the original post because coincidentally I am building a diorama with a Huey in it. I've actually built a couple featuring Hueys in the past. Can you tell I like Hueys? So I thought all the info I'd gather might help anyone considering this subject.
Scale is obviously a big consideration, my previous two goes at this subject were in 1/72 and 1/24. 1/72 is probably the easiest to attempt as there are a wealth of figures suitable for adaptation into Infantry, pilots, doorgunners, airmobile troops and indeed NVA/VC troops and civilians. Using a smaller scale such as 1/72 presents one with the opportunity to create a helicopter LZ of realistic proportions too. My attempt in this scale featured seven, yes seven! Hueys plus two AH1 Cobras, a large treeline. plus a lot of figures on the ground. Take it from me that's a lot of building. In order to get around having to mod too many figures, I chose to depict the scene at a moment where most of the troops had disembarked, as it's tricky to fit many figures into a 1/72 scale Huey in a realistic fashion.
If it sounds like an ambition undertaking, you should bear in mind that, building more than one of the same model at one time enables you to get into mass production in a lot of areas, so it's not the massive undertaking it at first appears and the scale enabled me to create a diorama which didn't look forced yet was no bigger than a smallish railway layout.
Many aircraft, in particular troop transports and bombers, appear more realistic if they are depicted as they would appear in the real world, ie in formation. Most pictures of Hueys you'll see feature more than one, and in modelling terms this adds a sense of a realistic operation. If a few appear in the scene.
One thing i was aware of was that it would not be realistic to depict all of the aircraft sat on the ground waiting to be zeroed in by a VC mortar crew.
This of course presents a problem, how do you depict them flying? The first big fly in the ointment is the rotor blades and after considerable experimentation, I determined that a fairly realistic portrayal can be made by discarding the main rotor blades (just the blades, keep the hub and balance weights etc) the blades can then be made from the clear material of 'blister packs' having them splaying out to around three times their normal width at the tip. This is easy to do if you score a circle out of the material and it has the advantage of yeilding enough material to create several sets of blades. They can then be airbrushed darker in the middle going clearer as you reach the tip. As an alternative, you might consider spinning the acetate disk on a sheet of sandpaper as this scores lines in a rotary pattern and helps create a sense of motion. I did consider using an entire disk of acetate to depict the rotor disk, but this doesn't actually look that good and its difficult to maintain a flat disk with such thin material. Experiment and see which you prefer, the material is freely available from discarded packaging so you can afford to have a few goes. The tail rotor on the other hand, doesn't look bad as a full disk. One other possibility with regard to the main rotor, is to consider motorising it with an electric motor concealed under the baseboard utilising an extended driveshaft, which can be concealed with 'elephant grass' common in LZs in Vietnam, the downdraught would also make it move if you used very light material to create it!
Next problem, how do you make it 'fly'? Well fortunately, if you are depicting 'Nam', pilots tried to keep as low as possible to reduce exposure on the way in and out of LZs and this is your saviour as you can simply conceal their support by having them coming in low over the trees! Another possibility if you are depicting a 'Hog' or a Cobra is to conceal a supporting rod in the smoke trail of a rocket impacting a target although I must admit I haven't tried this.
The other Huey diorama I built in the past was based around a large scale Huey C which I think was produced by Monogram and came in a box with artwork tied into the TV series 'Tour of Duty' pilot figues were included, but troops were not, however, at such a large scale, scratchbuilding becomes a lot easier! Also at this scale you can build in LEDs to depict the position and anti collision lights which really makes the model come alive.
I've just started a new Huey diorama which will use the 1/35 Panda UH-1D and of course, finding troops for this will be a lot easier, however, it has no pilot figures included. To remedy this I am modding figures from a couple of Tamiya's 1/35 US Armoured troops box set (item 35117) as this includes two figures wearing helmets which, suitably modified with visors, mike booms and headphone bulges, will be a good match for the aircrew of a Huey.
Other possibilities for dioramas on this theme are the 1/48th scale Huey D/AB205 recent re-issue (Italieri I think). Various Hasegawa 1/72 models including a UH-1N to add a bit of variety if you're depicting the latter part of the conflict. I can recommend the ESCI/Ertl 1/72 scale Huey too, not sure where you'll find one, try E-Bay, bit of mould flash but it scales out well. I don't rate the 1/48 scale Mongram Huey C though. The windows aren't at all accurate!
Books I can recommend for reference are the obligatory Squadron/Signal Huey book and another Squadron/Signal book 'Airmobile - The Helicopter War in Vietnam'. For inspiration you could also try 'Chickenhawk' by Robert Mason, as it will yield a wealth of operational information with regard to mods etc. For example, the co-pilot and pilot often traded places so that the main pilot sat where the smaller panel was to improve his view downward. Also, the quilted sound deadening material in the cabin would get mildewed in the climate of Vietnam and was usually removed from Hueys that had been in the theatre for a while. Another frequent mod with door gunners was an empty can of peaches welded to the side of the M60 to help prevent feed jams caused by the airflow shaking the ammo belt around!
Good film references include all the obvious war films such as, Platoon, We Were Soldiers, Hamburger Hill etc, but bear in mind that since they were not filmed 'at the time' innacuracies can creep in. For example, the pilots in Hamburger Hill are wearing white helmets. Not a good idea with all those VC snipers about!
Enjoy!
Maki
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 11:54 AM UTC
Great post buddy... I've always wanted to make a Huey in 1/35 and reading your post gave me more idaes how to portray it. Thanks..

BTW, do you have some pics of your projects? I'd like to seeeee them..

Mario M.
Holocaust59
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Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 02:02 PM UTC
Sadly the other thing about big dioramas, is eventually you run out of room! And so the really big one no longer exists, and I never took any pictures of it, how stupid is that? The large scale Huey does still exist however and coincidentally, my wife came home with a digital camera yesterday, so I think I'll get some pics of that one!
Oh, some other stuff just occurred to me.
I'm not sure if that Panda 1/35 scale Huey includes door guns, I'm pretty sure it doesn't. I've not started construction of it yet.
If you decide, as I have, to include them, be aware that the Vietnam era, ie 1960's, M60 machine gun differs from later models. I think the improved modern version was called the M60E1. Amongst other things it has the bipod attached to the rear of the gas cylinder and it has a different sight. not that the bipod is likely to be on a door gun (check some photos). Anyway, don't be tempted to use modern ones from your spares box, cause they won't be right. I know it's not a big deal, but if you do, you can bet some picky tw*t will enjoy pointing out your mistake! Don't forget to add the bag to catch the disintegrating links and ejected shell cases from the M60s either, they would fly into the tail rotor if ejected into the airflow.
By the way, if you really want to go over the top, model an Australian or ARVN Huey in the Vietnam era. They were armed to the teeth with rocket pods, quad 60's and all sorts! There are pics in the Squadron/Signal book. Don't forget the swing down cockpit mounted sight though! On the other hand, if you want an easy option, early Huey door guns were attached with bungy cords rather than tailor-made mounts, that'll save you having to scratchbuild the mounts and it will be easier to place the door gunners realistically, without having to contort them around the fixed gun positions.
Other easy mods would be:
The 'toilet bowl' exhaust diffuser, which deflected the exhaust plume up into the rotors to reduce the heat signature as a measure against Strella surface to air missiles. These appeared later in the conflict (mid 1967 onwards).
Flak jackets made from Milliput on the floor under the rudder pedals in the chin windows, crews used to put them there to improve protection against small arms fire.
Another easy, but effective, modification to your Huey is to cut away the molded engine cowling grille covers and replace them with stockings or tights material dyed or sprayed green (or whatever colour you chopper is). then you'll be able to see the engine, which unfortunately you'll probably have to make and paint silver. But since it'll only be visible through the grille, it doesn't have to be a masterpiece. Check out some photos of Hueys, this is a prominent feature, especially on the UH-1N. Which incidentally, is another mod you could do to the Panda kit, although it wouldn't be that easy, you'd need a new engine housing and new chin windows plus a reprofiled nose too. (attention after-market mod kit companies!).
If you are modelling your Huey static, don't be tempted to droop the rotor blades too much either, they actually go up a bit from the rotor mast before drooping ever so slightly.
Another time saving mod here, not that common but you can blag it, don't bother making the doors at all! Some Hueys had them completely removed.
The cockpit skylight windows can be easily made their correct green colour by adding a template of the window on the inside of the cockpit cut from transparent green folders, the sort you buy from stationers and office supply places.
One last thing, if, like me, you are in the UK, Hueys aren't all that common, but if you want some close up reference, there is a preserved one at the USAF Museum at Duxford, and you can get seriously close to it (Sadly it was too big to nick). That museum's well worth a look anyway even if you don't give a toss about Hueys!
Anyway I'll stop going on about it now! I need to get out more, don't I?
Have fun!
Maki
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ARMORAMA
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Croatia Hrvatska
Joined: February 13, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, December 05, 2002 - 07:57 PM UTC
It seems you know Hueys up close and personal.. Great info and now I can't wait to pick one up and start it. When I do, I will contact you for sure

Can't wait for the pics..

Mario M.
HeavyArty
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Posted: Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 02:26 AM UTC
If you are looking for a good 1/35 Vietnam Huey Crew, DML just re-issued their excellent Vietnam Helicopter Crew. It comes with pilot, co-pilot, and two door gunners(one with a complete M60-D flex mount and the other holding an M60). To model a UH1 slick (M60-D Flexmount on both sides), you will need 2 kits.
Here is a photo of it: Vietnam Helo Crew
Disreguard the Out Of Production message. It had been re-released by DML/Dragon, not Shanghi Dragon (same company, different division)
Holocaust59
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Posted: Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 08:53 AM UTC
Heavy Arty, thanks for the heads up on the chopper crew figures. i was aware that there was a set out there somewhere, couldn't remember who did it though!
Nevertheless, I quite like the idea of modding the Tamiya figures as it will lend a touch of originality to my diorama, that and the fact that I've already bought two of the Tamiya boxed sets!!! LOL.
Besides, I have it pretty much fixed in my head how I want the door gunners positioned and that's gonna take quite a bit of scratchbuilding to get the poses I want.
BTW, if you want a good laugh, look at the way the figures have been painted on the packaging for that Tamiya set! (item 35117) It gives us all hope...
HeavyArty
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Posted: Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:05 AM UTC
Holocaust59,
I too modified the Tamiya Armored Troops into helo crewmen before there were any good helo crew sets out there. The figures are pretty bad though. They will work, but I highly recommend the DML crew. They are excellent, I have several sets and have already used them to outfit a few Hueys, Loaches, and Cobras (even modified some for use as gunners on my UH-60). I would get the DML set myself.
lestweforget
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:35 PM UTC
kool, thnx for that, i have a 1:35 huey lz dio underway right now, but i ahvent started the actual landscape, so thats very useful, thanks again, and if anyones interested i am getting my pics to all of u soon, in the next few weeks
lestweforget
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 04:42 PM UTC
Holocaust, this is to u, i have found the dragon vietnam heicopter crew great for 1:35 nam dios, especially huey, u probably already know about this set, but i hope it helps u anyway, cheers
Holocaust59
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Posted: Wednesday, December 11, 2002 - 11:13 PM UTC
Lest we forget, cheers for the info.

Have fun
lestweforget
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Posted: Thursday, December 12, 2002 - 01:41 PM UTC
anytime mate, keep up with the hueys, anything thats nam i love
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