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Terre Models T90S conversion
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 10:43 PM UTC
Does anyone know if this will work with the Tamiya T72M1 kit? Doesn't the Tamiya kit have the premolded add on glacis armor?
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 03:18 AM UTC
Tamiya's T-72 does indeed come with the glacis armor.
Well, if the Terre model kit is indeed based on the Kirin kit, then it was meant for the DML T-72M1, which is what I put my Kirin T-90 on. Not sure if it is indeed for that kit though...
Well, if the Terre model kit is indeed based on the Kirin kit, then it was meant for the DML T-72M1, which is what I put my Kirin T-90 on. Not sure if it is indeed for that kit though...
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 07:26 AM UTC
I think you're right in that the Terre T-90S is for the DML kit. Looking at the resin kit now and there is the glacis armor. Can't exactley put that on the Tamiya kit without first raising the armor on it first. Not a task I want to attempt.
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 07:36 AM UTC
Reason I'm asking about the T-90S is that I have 2 T-72s in my stash already and wondering if I have one appropriate for the conversion. I have a Zvezda T-72A and a DML T-72M2. For the life of me I can't recall if the T-72A is a T-72M1 equivalent? The transkit (for the T-90S) says its for the Heller T-72 (didn't know they made one, assume its a repop of someone elses...DML?) but has a turret ring for Tamiya as well as Italeri. Ugh, so is my T-72A appropriate for the T-90S conversion or do I have to pick up another T-72?
2CAVTrooper
Joined: October 21, 2005
KitMaker: 310 posts
Armorama: 302 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 08:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Reason I'm asking about the T-90S is that I have 2 T-72s in my stash already and wondering if I have one appropriate for the conversion. I have a Zvezda T-72A and a DML T-72M2. For the life of me I can't recall if the T-72A is a T-72M1 equivalent? The transkit (for the T-90S) says its for the Heller T-72 (didn't know they made one, assume its a repop of someone elses...DML?) but has a turret ring for Tamiya as well as Italeri. Ugh, so is my T-72A appropriate for the T-90S conversion or do I have to pick up another T-72?
Well a T-72M1 is a modernized version of the T-72M
The T-72M is the export version of the T-72A that the Soviets exported to their Warsaw Pact clientele according to Janes
From Globalsecurity.org:
T-72: Original Russian tank from which T-72 variants were derived.
T-72A: The Russian variant differs from T-72 with the TPDK-1 LRF, added sideskirts, additional armor on the turret front and top, smoke grenade launchers, internal changes, and a slight weight increase.
T-72B : has the thickened frontal turret armor and is commonly known in the United States as the Dolly Parton.
T-72BK: Commander's variant with additional radios
T-72BM: Version with 2nd Generation Kontakt-5 explosive reactive armor similar to that on the T-90. This system is being fielded and is available for export.
T-72M: Original Polish and former-Czechoslovakian T-72-series tank from which Polish/Czechoslovakian T-72M1 was derived. T-72M differs from T-72 in replacing the right-side coincident rangefinder with a centerline-mounted TPDK-1 LRF.
T-72M1: Russian export version and Polish/Czechoslovakian counterparts. Versions with Kontact ERA are known as T-72AV /T-72 M1V. Some countries have inventories of T-72, T-72M and T-72M1, with different versions of each variant. Also, many variants were upgraded or modified. Some T-72M1s do not have smoke grenade launchers or track skirts. Some T-72s/T-72Ms have smoke grenade launchers. More reliable discriminators are armor and rangefinder/FCS.
The T-90's are in fact based on the T-72BM, with some added features from the T-80 series.
Also from Globalsecurity.org:
"To further improve the T-72's export prospects and its chances of being selected as Russia's sole production MBT, the T-80U's more sophisticated fire control system was also added to produce a vehicle designated T-72BU. Finally, since worldwide news coverage during Desert Storm had firmly established the image of the T-72 as a burning Iraqi tank, the new model was renamed T-90."
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 08:47 PM UTC
Ok, DUH! The Kirin/Terre Models kit should go on the DML T-72M2...(not the M1, that is the Tamiya kit..sigh, too many paint fumes.)
The DML T-72M2 is supposed to represent a early T-72B.
And for Tamiya conversions, I have seen the nice new Miniarm conversion BUT...you have to cut out the front glacis to add the new parts...what a mess. I'm not above some hard work, but for crying out loud.
I think I am going to suggest to Sergej at SP Designs to make a new upper hull for the tamiya T-72M1 kit WITHOUT the added glacis piece.
The DML T-72M2 is supposed to represent a early T-72B.
And for Tamiya conversions, I have seen the nice new Miniarm conversion BUT...you have to cut out the front glacis to add the new parts...what a mess. I'm not above some hard work, but for crying out loud.
I think I am going to suggest to Sergej at SP Designs to make a new upper hull for the tamiya T-72M1 kit WITHOUT the added glacis piece.
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Friday, February 10, 2006 - 07:41 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ok, DUH! The Kirin/Terre Models kit should go on the DML T-72M2...(not the M1, that is the Tamiya kit..sigh, too many paint fumes.)
The DML T-72M2 is supposed to represent a early T-72B.
And for Tamiya conversions, I have seen the nice new Miniarm conversion BUT...you have to cut out the front glacis to add the new parts...what a mess. I'm not above some hard work, but for crying out loud.
I think I am going to suggest to Sergej at SP Designs to make a new upper hull for the tamiya T-72M1 kit WITHOUT the added glacis piece.
Ahhh, so T-72M2 it is then...guess I'll have to pick up another as I want to build my current one.
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 02:41 AM UTC
The Terre conversion will work on either one, however has some glaring problems. The worst is that the front fenders are completely different and will have to be done from scratch. Also the new frontal armour provided barely resembles the real thing. T-90 also has eight attachement points on front and Tamiya kit only has four. This is all I have found so far as I am only two days into the project. My overall opinion is htat for what the Terre kit cost it barely gives you what you will need and with really poor directions and photos to guide you with.
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 08:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The Terre conversion will work on either one, however has some glaring problems. The worst is that the front fenders are completely different and will have to be done from scratch. Also the new frontal armour provided barely resembles the real thing. T-90 also has eight attachement points on front and Tamiya kit only has four. This is all I have found so far as I am only two days into the project. My overall opinion is htat for what the Terre kit cost it barely gives you what you will need and with really poor directions and photos to guide you with.
Tell me about it...
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 - 11:45 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextMy overall opinion is htat for what the Terre kit cost it barely gives you what you will need and with really poor directions and photos to guide you with.
Tell me about it...
Yes Michael is right, have a look at mine on my site. You'll see TM mistakes (and subsequently mine
)The glacis is wrong, I didn't attempt to correct it though (missing info by that time), the new turret bins aren't in the conversion, the front fenders must be modified (not that hard) and above all the directions are a very poor quality. Low res B&W pics of the model.
Concerning removing Tamiya's glacis add-on armor, it remains "do-able". I did it with patience and a good sandpaper.
It is not perfect, you still can see marks of the former plate but you can do it better. You just need time 
Oh, I can't recall any Heller T-72. For sure they never jumped into Soviet/Russian sstuff of my knowledge. My TM T-90S conversion mentioned the Italeri T-72M1.
olivier
olivier
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 20, 2006 - 06:16 PM UTC
Just an update on the conversion progress. As I work my way around the hull I have found that the T-90S exhaust is entirely different from the T-72 any version. This is not addressed in the any conversion set I have seen. My references show it to be about half the size and squarish. I will probably just leave it as is because it would take many hours to replicate. Guess this one won't be in any competitions any time soon.
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, March 20, 2006 - 07:10 PM UTC
Hi Michael,
concerning the exhaust I didn't notice that point before. Maybe have you seen pics without the rounded cover over it. Just a guess. Otherwise, I would be interested by seeing some pics of this kind of exhaust.
olivier
concerning the exhaust I didn't notice that point before. Maybe have you seen pics without the rounded cover over it. Just a guess. Otherwise, I would be interested by seeing some pics of this kind of exhaust.
olivier
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, March 20, 2006 - 07:41 PM UTC
Oliver,
I am using Issue #2 of Army Recognition. Issue 1 has a great photo spread on the T-90, BMP-3F and the Zoopark. Issue 2 has superb photos of the T-90S, T-80UK and the BMR-3M. If you order magazine they also give you a CD that contains the photos.
Let me know your email and I would be happy to email image to you.
Michael
I am using Issue #2 of Army Recognition. Issue 1 has a great photo spread on the T-90, BMP-3F and the Zoopark. Issue 2 has superb photos of the T-90S, T-80UK and the BMR-3M. If you order magazine they also give you a CD that contains the photos.
Let me know your email and I would be happy to email image to you.
Michael
bison126
Joined: June 10, 2004
KitMaker: 5,329 posts
Armorama: 5,204 posts
Posted: Monday, March 20, 2006 - 10:53 PM UTC
Thanks for the proposal. Click on my profile and my email is available.
Anyway, Army Recognition is distributed in newspapers shops in France. The first one is already in my "database" with the CD-ROM. I'm looking forward to seeing the next one hit the shelves.
olivier
Anyway, Army Recognition is distributed in newspapers shops in France. The first one is already in my "database" with the CD-ROM. I'm looking forward to seeing the next one hit the shelves.
olivier
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 07:28 PM UTC
I finally gave up on this conversion. The era is oversized and just wont fit. I think I will try to combine the Terre and the AEF kit to make a complete T-90. Or I will just wait as Miniarm has announced that they will be doing one soon.
They have announced the front for the T-72BM and this will allow you to make T-90 as well.
They have announced the front for the T-72BM and this will allow you to make T-90 as well.
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 06, 2006 - 07:57 PM UTC
Ok Mike, what is the probelem with the ERA? Here are some shots of my build of the T-72BM from the Kirin conversion (the father of the Terre and AEF conv)
Now, I do not have either of the other kits and so I do not know what was converted, changed, or added/subtracted. But maybe I can help if you describe the problem.
Now, I do not have either of the other kits and so I do not know what was converted, changed, or added/subtracted. But maybe I can help if you describe the problem.
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 07, 2006 - 01:16 AM UTC
Jacques,
The Terre ERA Blocks are about twice the size and there is simply no way to get 5 blocks side by side and still fit anywhere like they should.
Also the object that is in front of the era almost stretches from hatch to hatch.
The Kontact 5 blocks also barely resemble what you have.
Kit is just a waist the only part that looks right is the turret and that is marginal. None of the storage bins are included and the bins in Tamiya or Dragon look the part.
The Terre ERA Blocks are about twice the size and there is simply no way to get 5 blocks side by side and still fit anywhere like they should.
Also the object that is in front of the era almost stretches from hatch to hatch.
The Kontact 5 blocks also barely resemble what you have.
Kit is just a waist the only part that looks right is the turret and that is marginal. None of the storage bins are included and the bins in Tamiya or Dragon look the part.
armormike
Joined: June 15, 2004
KitMaker: 106 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, April 07, 2006 - 01:26 AM UTC
Jacques
There is just so many things that do not match with the photo research I have it really is impossible to list them all. I thought I could live with a few discrepencies as I am by no means a rivet counter but by the time I would make it look even partially right I will have scratch built most of the turret detail.
Based on the photos of Miniarms T-72BM I will definately wait for their T-90 as it is not that much different detail wise. Aslo their T-72BM Hull details will almost complete the front hull issues discussed earlier.
There is just so many things that do not match with the photo research I have it really is impossible to list them all. I thought I could live with a few discrepencies as I am by no means a rivet counter but by the time I would make it look even partially right I will have scratch built most of the turret detail.
Based on the photos of Miniarms T-72BM I will definately wait for their T-90 as it is not that much different detail wise. Aslo their T-72BM Hull details will almost complete the front hull issues discussed earlier.
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Friday, April 07, 2006 - 02:39 AM UTC
I totally agree that the way Miniarm has dealt with the Tamiya T-72 front glacis seems to be a good way to go. I have shown it to Sergej and I hope he can do something similar for a non-applique hull front. Miniarm definately gets a thumbs up from looks in the photo. Now if I can get ahold of the real stuff...
Here is a shot of the T-62M m2005 I am working on.
I am assuming the ERA you are having trouble with is the K-5 frontal ERA. More photo's/info here
If Terre and AEF did indeed copy off of the Kirin kit, it is not surprise that correct pieces do not fit on the turret...the Kirin turret is based off of a DML kit turret and the ERA on the Kirin kit is incorrect (too short) and making changes to fit it would probably only lead to all the trouble you are having.
Well, I hope you can find something else to work on while you wait for the Miniart kits to come out! :-)
Here is a shot of the T-62M m2005 I am working on.
I am assuming the ERA you are having trouble with is the K-5 frontal ERA. More photo's/info here
If Terre and AEF did indeed copy off of the Kirin kit, it is not surprise that correct pieces do not fit on the turret...the Kirin turret is based off of a DML kit turret and the ERA on the Kirin kit is incorrect (too short) and making changes to fit it would probably only lead to all the trouble you are having.
Well, I hope you can find something else to work on while you wait for the Miniart kits to come out! :-)
spongya
Associate Editor
Joined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Monday, August 21, 2006 - 07:59 PM UTC
Hi,
I know it's
, but I didn't want to start another one on just one question. How good is the Zvezda kit? I had troubles with a SKIF T-80, and before I spend money on another -for me- unkown kit-maker, I'd like to know more about it. I found some reviews on Zvezda kts, but I'd like to hear some first-hand experience, if it's not much of a trouble.
Thank you.
I know it's
, but I didn't want to start another one on just one question. How good is the Zvezda kit? I had troubles with a SKIF T-80, and before I spend money on another -for me- unkown kit-maker, I'd like to know more about it. I found some reviews on Zvezda kts, but I'd like to hear some first-hand experience, if it's not much of a trouble.Thank you.
woodstock74
Joined: December 28, 2002
KitMaker: 1,189 posts
Armorama: 692 posts
Posted: Monday, August 21, 2006 - 09:51 PM UTC
The Zvezda is just a reboxed DML.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
Armorama: 9,071 posts
Posted: Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:43 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Like Mike said, it is a rebox of the old DML kit. The only thing they changed are the markings and color of the plastic. Here is a review of the Zvezda model: Zvezda T-72Hi,
I know it's
Thank you.
spongya
Associate EditorJoined: February 01, 2005
KitMaker: 2,365 posts
Armorama: 1,709 posts
Posted: Monday, August 21, 2006 - 10:56 PM UTC
Thank you for the answers.
Jacques
Joined: March 04, 2003
KitMaker: 4,630 posts
Armorama: 4,498 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 - 07:56 PM UTC
Hey Sponjya,
Well, here is some basic advice:
DML russian kits are fair by today's standards. They stillbuild up ok, but the buildability and detail are starting to show. I am working on a Hobbycraft T-72, a Tamiya T-72, and a DML T-72M2 kit for various conversions. I loved building the DML kits when they first came out, but now they have building problems. I am also working on a DML T-80U SMT M1989 and will do a full buildup review in the future. It has molding and fit issues as well as detial problems.
SKIF kits are, aside from their horrible T-55, dimensionally accurate but soft on detail. I am also building a SKIF T-80UD right now and to be honest, it builds better than the older DML kit but will need more detail work to bring it up to what I want. The SKIF kits are really helped by Eduard PE sets.
Eastern Express kits are nicely detailed, dimensionally accurate, but tend to be a bit fiddly and some parts are very sparsly detailed. I am building the EE BMD-2 and foud the AT-4/5 launcher and the main barrel assembly to be far too plain for me to use, there just is not enough detail.
Zvezda kits are hit and miss. Most, but not all, of the kits they make of russian equipment are from other companies - just reboxed. Some exceptions are the BMD and BTR-80A...the BMD is all new and the BTR-80A has a new turret that is very nicely detailed. So some gems and some rehash.
Tamiya's kits are a smattering. The T-62 is the only kit on the market, but is overscale and a poor build OOB. The T-72 is ok, with turret problems and build limitations due to the front glacis armor plate. The T-55 is really really nice and has a few detail problems with the engine deck depending on who manufactured it (Polish, Czech, Russian etc..) but it is a VERY nice kit (Yes, I like it.)
I know this does not cover all kits, but it shoud give you a good base to go from.
Well, here is some basic advice:
DML russian kits are fair by today's standards. They stillbuild up ok, but the buildability and detail are starting to show. I am working on a Hobbycraft T-72, a Tamiya T-72, and a DML T-72M2 kit for various conversions. I loved building the DML kits when they first came out, but now they have building problems. I am also working on a DML T-80U SMT M1989 and will do a full buildup review in the future. It has molding and fit issues as well as detial problems.
SKIF kits are, aside from their horrible T-55, dimensionally accurate but soft on detail. I am also building a SKIF T-80UD right now and to be honest, it builds better than the older DML kit but will need more detail work to bring it up to what I want. The SKIF kits are really helped by Eduard PE sets.
Eastern Express kits are nicely detailed, dimensionally accurate, but tend to be a bit fiddly and some parts are very sparsly detailed. I am building the EE BMD-2 and foud the AT-4/5 launcher and the main barrel assembly to be far too plain for me to use, there just is not enough detail.
Zvezda kits are hit and miss. Most, but not all, of the kits they make of russian equipment are from other companies - just reboxed. Some exceptions are the BMD and BTR-80A...the BMD is all new and the BTR-80A has a new turret that is very nicely detailed. So some gems and some rehash.
Tamiya's kits are a smattering. The T-62 is the only kit on the market, but is overscale and a poor build OOB. The T-72 is ok, with turret problems and build limitations due to the front glacis armor plate. The T-55 is really really nice and has a few detail problems with the engine deck depending on who manufactured it (Polish, Czech, Russian etc..) but it is a VERY nice kit (Yes, I like it.)
I know this does not cover all kits, but it shoud give you a good base to go from.
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