Is it me or do other people find the placement of the advertiser's links somewhat intrusive on certain pages in the site? I just clicked on a new review and found a large pic advertising "Sprue Bros" right in the middle of the page, as if part of the review.
For a moment I was confused, was it a thumbnail for the review? Then I realised it was an advert. The green frog is bad enough (at least it is obviously not part of the review) but will there be these things in the middle of every review published on the site?
I realise it probably brings in valuable revenue for the site but couldn't they be placed in a more appropriate position, above or below the text rather than bang in the middle of the review? I really do find them off putting, so much that I have stopped browsing the reviews all together.
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Intrusive advertisements
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
Armorama: 234 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 10:55 PM UTC
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:06 PM UTC
Yes, I have to agree. It must be difficult to finance a site as big as this, but some adverts are placed a bit 'odd'... I also noticed that we now have a non-modelling related advert..
Henk
Edit - The point about Adverts in the middle of a review is a good one. This can potentialy create an awkward situation where an advert for a competitor to the reviewed item/manufacturer is prominantly displayed in the middle... Confussing at best...
Henk
Edit - The point about Adverts in the middle of a review is a good one. This can potentialy create an awkward situation where an advert for a competitor to the reviewed item/manufacturer is prominantly displayed in the middle... Confussing at best...
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:21 PM UTC
Well, we have advertising or we have a site - it's that simple. As to using the Reviews and News for positioning adverts, that was a decision taken by the site owner...Jim
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
Armorama: 234 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:32 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, we have advertising or we have a site - it's that simple.
If people are put off accessing parts of the site and the read count doesn't increase significantly will the advertisers still want to advertise?
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:51 PM UTC
Quoted Text
If people are put off accessing parts of the site and the read count doesn't increase significantly will the advertisers still want to advertise?
Well, the contrary seems to have happened, our statistics for page views, number of visitors and posts made are going through the roof at the moment...
The real issue is finding a means of encouraging people to move off the forums and into the other areas of the site - Features, Reviews and News. Many people simply don't understand the real depth of the site..Jim
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 - 11:59 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The real issue is finding a means of encouraging people to move off the forums and into the other areas of the site - Features, Reviews and News. Many people simply don't understand the real depth of the site
How about a (rotating) advert style spot next to the forums, prominently placed at the top ( like the little pic with a link for Werner's models at the top left) advertising and linking to reviews and or features. That will grab attention and will get people moving to other areas.
Cheers
Henk
ShermiesRule
Joined: December 11, 2003
KitMaker: 5,409 posts
Armorama: 3,777 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:00 AM UTC
Well I have to admit it's not the ads or the placement that bother me. It's only that stupid frog!! Just something about that frog that bugs me.
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:02 AM UTC
Henk, do me a favor and suggest it to JimS - he's always open to new ideas like that. I have enough problems with HTML.. It does sound like a real possibility though..Jim 
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:11 AM UTC
I've send him a message Jim. 
Cheers
Henk
Cheers
Henk
jimbrae
Joined: April 23, 2003
KitMaker: 12,927 posts
Armorama: 9,486 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well I have to admit it's not the ads or the placement that bother me. It's only that stupid frog!! Just something about that frog that bugs me
Same here, I HATE that damned frog... If it was a bit less green I wouldn't mind so much....Jim :-)
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
Armorama: 234 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Well, the contrary seems to have happened, our statistics for page views, number of visitors and posts made are going through the roof at the moment...
I'm glad that the stats are growing, but are the read counts for reviews growing at the same rate?
Quoted Text
The real issue is finding a means of encouraging people to move off the forums and into the other areas of the site - Features, Reviews and News. Many people simply don't understand the real depth of the site..
i agree that the other parts of the site are great but the real strength of the site is the forums and I'm sure that is the reason that the site is growing in membership.
My original point was not that advertising is a bad thing, simply that I found the positioning of certain adds - in the middle of someone's review off putting. I occasionally submit reviews but do I want to see it with an intrusive ad in the middle of it? Certainly not. Do I want my review to be read and hopefully informative? Yes. Do I want it there simply to be a vehicle for an ad? NO.
betheyn
Senior Editor
#019
Joined: October 14, 2004
KitMaker: 4,560 posts
Armorama: 510 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:27 AM UTC
What frog. I get a black screen for a couple of seconds, but no frog. Must have a pop up blocker on :-) .
Andy (++)
Andy
(++) 
insolitus
Joined: July 28, 2005
KitMaker: 649 posts
Armorama: 207 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 12:48 AM UTC
Personally, I like the frog...find him cute He makes me happy so I rather have him there then not...
He makes me happy so I rather have him there then not...
staff_Jim
Publisher
Joined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 01:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I really do find them off putting, so much that I have stopped browsing the reviews all together.
Martin,
I am confused. By that are you not saying that you find the reviews to not be very valuable? People put up with a lot of ads for certain services (TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, free email, etc). This is really not that different than that. The problem with ads is that by nature they must be borderline intrusive or they have little effect.
There are many considerations involved in how and where ads are placed on the site. Having them be effective is obviously one of the chief among them. The way that ad displays is not much different from 10,000 other sites on the net. It has a designation as an advertisement and over time I am sure users will adapt to the ad just as they did the left banner ads when people were not happy about them either. Of course they are primary reason there is an Armorama still here after 4 years.
Personally I would love to be able to watch TV without ads as well so I certainly understand the feeling.
Thanks,
Jim
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 01:55 AM UTC
Jim,
Fair enough, I think we can all live with certain adverts.
But what about the possibility of competitors adverts ending up in the middle of a review? I bet Ford would not be happy if their full spread advert had an Nissan advert banner across it... (car makers are purely bij chance..
).
Cheers
Henk
Fair enough, I think we can all live with certain adverts.
But what about the possibility of competitors adverts ending up in the middle of a review? I bet Ford would not be happy if their full spread advert had an Nissan advert banner across it... (car makers are purely bij chance..
). Cheers
Henk
jonnysocko
Joined: August 15, 2005
KitMaker: 192 posts
Armorama: 0 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 02:26 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextIf people are put off accessing parts of the site and the read count doesn't increase significantly will the advertisers still want to advertise?
Well, the contrary seems to have happened, our statistics for page views, number of visitors and posts made are going through the roof at the moment...
The real issue is finding a means of encouraging people to move off the forums and into the other areas of the site - Features, Reviews and News. Many people simply don't understand the real depth of the site..Jim
I try to cruise around the site. There is a great deal of info here when you look. But the Forums are addicting because your interacting with real people.
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
Armorama: 234 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 02:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Martin,
I am confused. By that are you not saying that you find the reviews to not be very valuable? People put up with a lot of ads for certain services (TV, radio, newspapers, magazines, free email, etc). This is really not that different than that. The problem with ads is that by nature they must be borderline intrusive or they have little effect.......
Jim I am saying that when I went to the review I mentioned, the first thing I saw in the middle of the page was an ad. The text of the review was written around it. This I found off putting, as if the review came second to the ad. The layout of the reviews had a "professional" look to them, now they seem to simply be a vehicle for the ad. There is a diference between "borderline intrusive" and full on in your face. To me borderline
Quoted Text
intrusive is the ads on the left hand side of the page whereas full onBRANDYDOGUK'S-FOR THE BEST IN USED CARS
Quoted Text
in your face means it detracts from the review/article/forum post.BUY YOUR USED CAR FROM BRANDYDOGUK'S CAR SHOWROOM
That's fine if it is the way you want to go, I am not keen so will simply not bother with reading or submitting them in future.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
Armorama: 903 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 02:45 AM UTC
Hi Martin
Please don't let the issue of adverts stop you reviewing! If I've learned one thing on Armorama, it's that the site is in a constant state of flux and improvement.
As Jim will know from our conversations, I do share some of your misgivings about how adverts are placed in reviews. I absolutely accept that they are essential to Armorama's success, but the tough nut to crack is finding the balance on how they should appear.
I'd like to see how a banner add would work across the top of the review space - that might "frame" the article, with actually seeming to be a part of it.
All the best
Rowan
Please don't let the issue of adverts stop you reviewing! If I've learned one thing on Armorama, it's that the site is in a constant state of flux and improvement.
As Jim will know from our conversations, I do share some of your misgivings about how adverts are placed in reviews. I absolutely accept that they are essential to Armorama's success, but the tough nut to crack is finding the balance on how they should appear.
I'd like to see how a banner add would work across the top of the review space - that might "frame" the article, with actually seeming to be a part of it.
All the best
Rowan
Salvo
Joined: August 14, 2005
KitMaker: 311 posts
Armorama: 182 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 03:15 AM UTC
If the ads bother you, you can always turn on your firewall filtering and it will block them out.
Cheers,
Salvo
Cheers,
Salvo
staff_Jim
PublisherJoined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 03:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jim,
Fair enough, I think we can all live with certain adverts.
But what about the possibility of competitors adverts ending up in the middle of a review? I bet Ford would not be happy if their full spread advert had an Nissan advert banner across it... (car makers are purely bij chance..
Cheers
Henk
Henk,
Again I am not disagreeing with you but the fact remains that advertisers have no problem with this. In fact that is their goal. What you seem to be saying is that the manufacturers should have a problem with any competing advertisments showing up anywhere on Armorama. That is simply not in their control, just like it's not anywhere else in media.
Just some examples....
typical ad embedded in news story
I rest my case.
Jim
staff_Jim
PublisherJoined: December 15, 2001
KitMaker: 12,571 posts
Armorama: 6,599 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 03:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
That's fine if it is the way you want to go, I am not keen so will simply not bother with reading or submitting them in future.
Martin,
That is of course your choice. But in that eventuality I think we both lose.
Thanks,
Jim
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 03:36 AM UTC
Jim,
My beef is not with competitive advertising. That is what advertising is all about. It's about the advert for a competitor (please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ford advert only shows ford products?) being very prominently shown at the start of a review. It can at best confuse people when the page opens. An advert for Trumpeter KV-1 in an artikel for Dragon's KV-1 for example.
The link you gave is a good example of what should be better, the advert is halfway down the page, where people are already reading the artikel.
On a personal note, I'm a bit weary how lately the adverts do seem to start to 'overcrowd' the site a bit. As I'm sure goes for many of us, one reason I like Armorama so much is (was?) the absence of excessive advertising. And all the advertising is legit and model related. I can live with that, after all these shops/traders are as much needed by us as we by them. It's non model related adverts that really irk me. Where does that take us? When you put the option of the pop-up adverts to us some months ago it became very clear that almost nobody likes these and the majority stated that they would rather see an increase in the membership fee than adverts. I did and stand by that. I've been considering an upgrade to gold, but I would be very unhappy if I put my money in only t find that I'm still going to be swamped with adverts.
Please don't take this personal, you have done ( and are doing) a magnificent job, Armorama is a big part of my modeling pleasure, but the subject of intrusive adverts is one that will provoke reactions and opinions.
Regards
Henk
My beef is not with competitive advertising. That is what advertising is all about. It's about the advert for a competitor (please correct me if I'm wrong, but the ford advert only shows ford products?) being very prominently shown at the start of a review. It can at best confuse people when the page opens. An advert for Trumpeter KV-1 in an artikel for Dragon's KV-1 for example.
The link you gave is a good example of what should be better, the advert is halfway down the page, where people are already reading the artikel.
On a personal note, I'm a bit weary how lately the adverts do seem to start to 'overcrowd' the site a bit. As I'm sure goes for many of us, one reason I like Armorama so much is (was?) the absence of excessive advertising. And all the advertising is legit and model related. I can live with that, after all these shops/traders are as much needed by us as we by them. It's non model related adverts that really irk me. Where does that take us? When you put the option of the pop-up adverts to us some months ago it became very clear that almost nobody likes these and the majority stated that they would rather see an increase in the membership fee than adverts. I did and stand by that. I've been considering an upgrade to gold, but I would be very unhappy if I put my money in only t find that I'm still going to be swamped with adverts.
Please don't take this personal, you have done ( and are doing) a magnificent job, Armorama is a big part of my modeling pleasure, but the subject of intrusive adverts is one that will provoke reactions and opinions.
Regards
Henk
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
Armorama: 903 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 03:53 AM UTC
Hi Jim
I have to say, based on your example of the Ford Mustang ad. on a Dodge Challanger page, you've done a much better job balancing priorities than I've ever given you credit for. If that's the norm, it's truly terrible! Could you imagine something similar on TV?...
As per Henk's suggestion for ads linked to the content - I think I'm right in that you said we can't do that yet?... but some sort of filter system (maybe based on the reviews categories?), so that advertisers could target their market their audience, could be a real marketing plus for Armorama.
All the best
Rowan
I have to say, based on your example of the Ford Mustang ad. on a Dodge Challanger page, you've done a much better job balancing priorities than I've ever given you credit for. If that's the norm, it's truly terrible! Could you imagine something similar on TV?...
As per Henk's suggestion for ads linked to the content - I think I'm right in that you said we can't do that yet?... but some sort of filter system (maybe based on the reviews categories?), so that advertisers could target their market their audience, could be a real marketing plus for Armorama.
All the best
Rowan
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
Armorama: 903 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 04:06 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Could you imagine something similar on TV?...
Hi again
I just had a dreadful thought...; please tell me US TV isn't like that! :-)
All the best
Rowan
Henk
Joined: August 07, 2004
KitMaker: 6,391 posts
Armorama: 4,258 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 - 04:10 AM UTC
Have you ever noticed how the volume goes up by a notch or two when the adverts start? 
Cheers
Henk
Cheers
Henk
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